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9.23 pm
Sir Jim Spicer (West Dorset): I have undertaken to speak for five minutes or less, and I shall do just that.
When I farmed in Dorset, 15 or 20 years ago, I had a pedigree herd of Galloways and I then had to move across--single suckling--to a cross-bred herd. If I had been farming today, this would have been one of the most desolate days of my life. All I would say to my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Agriculture and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health is that, whatever measures we take to help the farming industry, for God's sake let us get on with it and give help quickly, because help is desperately needed now.
Yesterday, there was a joint meeting of the Health and Agriculture Select Committees. My hon. Friend the Member for Weston-super-Mare (Sir J. Wiggin) asked Professor Pattison:
Professor Pattison's response was:
That was not reported in the press this morning--it does not suit them to report the facts, which would have restored some confidence. If we were dealing with a rational response to such a statement, there would be no major cause for concern, and consumers--both in this country and in Europe--would be happily eating beef as a matter of course.
Sadly, we all know that in this case, the media, the Opposition and our so-called fellow members of the European Union seem to have had one aim: to stir up public fears and--in the case of the European Union--to serve their own interests, at whatever cost to our industry. We now have to face up to that lack of confidence. There is no doubt that major resources will
need to be deployed and that many thousands of cows may have to be slaughtered in an attempt to restore public confidence.
I shall say a word to those who have helped to undermine that confidence. The hon. Member for Peckham (Ms Harman) has her reasons for what she has done over the past week--and I hope that she will live to regret it. We all accepted and enjoyed hearing what the leader of the Liberal Democrats has said over the past two or three days, but I wish that he had taken the same line when he was making broadcasts earlier this week and last week--his tone was quite different. I ask the Liberal Democrats to exert some influence on the leader of Dorset county council, to make certain that he does not go around undermining confidence in our beef.
The cost of the measures that we shall have to implement may be high, but it is worth bearing it in mind that, between 1979 and 1995, Government social and reconstruction grants to British Coal totalled over£6 billion. At that time, the coal industry was in decline. However, our farming industry has a future, provided that we take the steps now to reassure our farming community and to restore confidence.
It is vital that the European market is reopened as soon as possible. The total value of beef products in this country at £2.5 billion, and over £500 million goes in exports. If we do not get that market back, we shall be in serious trouble. The Government have to listen to reason and they have to do something about it.
BSE has been in rapid decline in this country and, in large measure, that is because of the actions taken in 1989. We must all hope that that downward trend continues and that within two or three years the present catastrophic situation will, in part, have been righted. The banks should help--they must stand by the industry and, if need be, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister should write to all the clearing banks.
Mr. Jimmy Hood (Clydesdale):
I thank the hon. Members who have cut their speeches short to allow me the opportunity to say something on this important subject.
I come from a good Labour constituency in the central belt of Scotland. Hon. Members seem to forget that I have one of the largest rural constituencies in the House--over 550 square miles. The Lanarkshire area secretary of the National Farmers Union told me that he has 400 members in my constituency. Therefore, I have a considerable interest in this very important subject. Obviously, I understand the plight of the farmers, but we should not lose sight of the fact that hundreds of thousands of other livelihoods are under threat. Particularly in rural constituencies such as Clydesdale, many small businesses, including family butchers and corner shops, depend considerably on a thriving rural economy and a vibrant agricultural industry.
Last weekend, I found myself appealing to my constituents to calm their response to the understandable hysteria that followed last week's announcement.
In asking them to be calm, however, I could not put my hand on my heart and advise them to eat beef after the statements in the House a few days previously.
In Scotland, we have excellent beef. I did not get where I am today without being a specific supporter. In Scotland, we have the best steak pies anywhere. I have had one or two steak pies in my time. I had one last weekend and I shall have another this weekend.
I am not trying to score political points, but, like my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, East (Dr. Strang), I was disappointed and somewhat surprised when I listened to the Prime Minister today. I understand that the Prime Minister has problems and pressures, as we all do. He probably has more than most, but his reaction today went over the scale and made no contribution whatever to addressing a great problem. I do not say that in a political way, but if the Prime Minister watches the tape of today's Question Time, he may regret his response to my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition.
There seems to be a certain attitude abroad within the Government. We have had scepticism and Thatcherism--now we have "not me-ism". Whenever there is a problem, the Government take the same view. They say, "It is not us," and somebody else is always to blame. Our constituents expect the Government to take responsibility. That is what the Government and Ministers are about, so when they start bobbing and weaving to escape that responsibility, politicians lose the public confidence. That loss of confidence affects not just particular Ministers, but the whole political system. It is difficult for us as politicians to address a fall in confidence when the public see politicians refusing to accept the responsibility that they accepted in the past.
We can talk about presenting a united front in our approach to the problem. I can well understand that, but the Secretary of State for Health let the genie out of the bottle last week. It would have been better had he considered talking to consumer associations, industry, traders and Opposition parties first. Some cross-party views might have helped to reduce the hysteria.
The statement let the genie out of the bottle, and over the weekend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food suggested the possibility of selective culling. Then we were told that the Chancellor of the Exchequer came back from South Africa to veto any such proposal. I do not have to remind the House that that was followed by the ban by McDonald's, British Airways and schools, which was no help at all.
Some colleagues blame Europe for the problem. Today, the hon. Member for Northampton, North (Mr. Marlow) said that the Commission had acted illegally.As Chairman of the Select Committee on European Legislation, I can tell the House that the Commission did not act illegally: it acted quite properly under the treaties. That has been demonstrated quite clearly to our Select Committee this week. It is a fact, not a matter of conjecture.
Now we need to rally round and try to pull back from this disaster. As my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, East said, we are not going to nit-pick about the Minister's proposals. I hope that they will do enough to rebuild confidence in British beef. I agree with hon. Members on both sides about British beef; in particular, Scottish beef is the best one can find anywhere. Wherever I am in the world, if I am offered Scottish beef, I am delighted to eat it.
Ms Harriet Harman (Peckham):
The debate in the House tonight and the wider debate in the country has been prompted by the discovery of 10 cases of what has been identified as a new form of CJD, which is an horrific disease, always fatal. This new strain of the disease has a new neuropathology. Hitherto it has been thought unique to this country, although I understand that it has been announced today that there may be a case with the same neuropathology in France.
This disease strikes young people, unlike the form of CJD with which people are more familiar. The average age of the 10 victims is 27.
We are told by the Secretary of State for Health that the most probable cause of the disease in these 10 people was eating contaminated beef, most probably before 1989. We well understand the full horror of the disease, but scientists are still attempting to understand more about it. I acknowledge the work of the independent advisory committee, SEAC, which has tried hard to marshal and to understand the scientific evidence, but as my hon. Friend the Member for West Lancashire (Mr. Pickthall) made clear, the problem remains that more questions have still to be answered than can be answered by the scientists.
The scientists cannot tell us with any certainty whether these 10 cases will be the first and last, or whether there will be 100 cases or 10,000 cases. The issue is full of uncertainty and must be kept under review. In particular, I ask the Secretary of State for Health to ensure that the scientists keep the susceptibility of children under review, especially those with underdeveloped immune systems--children under three. Public health must be the Government's first concern.
To take the necessary action, there must be an understanding of the roots of the crisis which has been caused by confidence in the safety of British beef first having hung by a thread and then having collapsed.
From the time that BSE was discovered, the Government asserted that mad cow disease could not be transmitted to humans and cause brain disease. On 7 June 1990, the then Minister of Agriculture, said:
That was followed up by the Minister inviting the world to watch him feed his daughter beefburgers, thereby implying certainty, when, as my hon. Friend the Member for Clydesdale (Mr. Hood) said, there was no certainty, and concern and doubt were growing.
The problem is that trust in the Government collapsed when, having made categorical assurances for all those years, the Secretary of State for Health had to come to
the House and announce, in the words of the Spongiform Encephalopathy Advisory Committee, that the most likely explanation at present was that these new CJD cases were linked to exposure to BSE.
Of course it is true that scientific opinion on BSE and Creuzfeldt-Jakob disease has developed considerably over the years, but as new developments have emerged the balance of scientific opinion has changed. Against the background of that growing uncertainty, the problem remained that the Government continued to argue with certainty that there was no link between BSE and CJD. It is that belief in certainty when there was none that contributed to the delay and inaction and which has now led to a crisis in public confidence.
In the debate, hon. Members set out their concerns about Government delays and the failure to regulate. The only way forward is to make beef safer and to restore consumers' confidence. That is also important for the livelihood of all those who work in the meat industry. There must be a common agreement between consumers, producers and retailers on the action that must be taken to restore public confidence. I hope that the Government will now admit that that is necessary.
"Would you not agree that the likelihood of BSE infected food appearing on the dinner plate is as near zero as is humanly possible?"
"I believe that is now the case."
"the clear scientific evidence is that British beef is perfectly safe."--[Official Report, 7 June 1990; Vol. 173, c. 906.]
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