| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Dr. Robert Spink (Castle Point) indicated dissent.
Mr. Beith: The hon. Gentleman, who claims to be a parliamentary private secretary, shakes his head. Does he not realise that young people and children are especially vulnerable in such circumstances?
The provisions about parking appear obvious and sensible for most people, but we must consider the position of someone who might be required to move a car when he would be placing himself in danger, or believed that he would be placing himself in danger, in order to do so. If a police officer tells someone, "Go and move that car because we think that there is a bomb in the car next to it," the person concerned is in a position to say, "I would rather see my car go up than go up with it." The use of that power needs to be clarified, as does its use in relation to disabled people.
It is not clear what other police forces are involved. I was surprised that the Home Secretary appeared to say that every private police force in the country, including those run by private enterprise organisations such as ports, will be brought within the ambit of the Bill. It does not say so on the face of the Bill. Indeed, the only definition of police officers in the Bill is in clause 5, which refers to police officers
force area. That does not sound to me like the Tilbury docks police or even the Royal Parks constabulary.
Mr. David Wilshire (Spelthorne):
Both the Bill and the procedures that we are using raise two separate issues, and there are two distinct ways of looking at both. One can either look at those issues in a detached philosophical way and have a debate about the theory of such things as civil rights, or one can look at them in a personally involved way and have a debate about how to protect innocent people.
I make no apology for looking at the Bill in a personally involved way, because I feel personally involved. Along with all others in the House and outside the House who are caught up in Northern Ireland affairs, it crosses my mind from time to time that I too might be a terrorist target. It is hardly surprising, when someone thinks like that--and thousands of people do--that such people feel personally involved and, when it comes to debates of this type, place public safety first, before all other matters.
I also feel involved on behalf of my constituents. Hon. Members should remember that Spelthorne residents have seen terrorism at first hand. They have seen mortars fired from the edge of a housing estate in Stanwell on to the runways of Heathrow airport and they have seen mortars fired from outside my constituency into the part of the airport that is located within it. Thank God none of those mortars exploded. It is hardly surprising that my constituents also feel personally involved and seek to put public safety first in the debate.
I shall give the House another example of my constituents' involvement in the debate. Only last week, when a group of children and teachers from an infant
school in my constituency came to Downing street to receive an award and to celebrate and enjoy themselves, worried parents sought reassurance from the head teacher about the terrorist threat in Whitehall. It is hardly surprising that my constituents feel personally involved in the situation and want to see public safety put above all other considerations. It makes the protection of life and limb a prime duty of the House at all times and a particular duty when considering the legislation tonight. Therefore, I approach every part of the Bill and of the procedure with that in mind.
If one feels personally involved in an issue such as this, it colours how one looks at philosophical issues such as civil liberties. I shall explain how I approach it and how I believe that my constituents deal with the question of civil liberties. I am proud to live in a liberal democracy; I am proud that our society is founded on the rule of law and is underpinned by a belief in the supremacy of individual human rights. I defer to no one and I shall take lectures from no one regarding my commitment to those fundamental principles: the most fundamental of which is the individual right to life--the very principle that the terrorists challenge at every turn.
If we believe that, we dare not overlook one of the weaknesses of the high-minded, principled approach. If societies use such principles to run their normal affairs, they find it very difficult to handle those who seek to undermine the fabric and the principles upon which the societies are based. The people who seek to undermine those principles often view those very principles as a weakness. Therefore, they treat them with contempt and they do not accept, as the rest of us do, that we should be bound by a common respect for civil liberties and for human rights.
I believe that that is the practical challenge confronting those who wish to philosophise--as we have heard tonight--and who want to focus on general civil liberties. Terrorists do not respect civil rights. That fact is evidenced by the spate of murders that occurred in Northern Ireland over Christmas. On those occasions, we are told that Sinn Fein-IRA decided to conduct investigations, but it did not tell anyone what it discovered--there goes the first civil right. Sinn Fein-IRA then decided to act and to behave as judge and jury based upon its investigations. It gave the people whom it decided to judge not a moment in which to defend themselves nor any right of appeal--there go more civil rights. Sinn Fein-IRA acted as the executioner as well as the judge and the jury, giving people no chance for redress or to be heard before they were murdered. Where is the civil liberty in that action? How can we treat people like that in the same way as we treat others going about their daily lives?
I judge that those evil people place themselves outside normal society and deny themselves the privileges that membership of such a society confers on the rest of us. The vast majority of those whom I represent willingly accept that if effectively dealing with those evil people involves the temporary inconvenience of the rest of us or the temporary interruption of some of our rights, so be it. That is the public view. We are quite prepared to pay that price to maintain life and limb.
I turn briefly to the two issues that are raised by the business before the House--the need for five new powers and the speed of enactment. Let me deal first with the five new powers. I suspect that there is little need to say much
more because every twist and every turn has been explored by the exchanges between Labour Members and it ill becomes me intrude on the private grief of the Labour party as it tries to sort itself out.
I judge that four of the five powers do not raise significant civil liberties issues. In regard to searching freight, customs officers do it and I am amazed to discover that the police cannot. Setting up cordons and placing restrictions on parking are probably covered by the common law, as I understand it, but if they are not, they should be placed on a statutory footing--we are not seeking to change anything, only to clarify it. As for searching premises, it is a nonsense if, after a terrorist has killed himself in a bomb explosion on a bus, the police are entitled to search his home and the homes of his friends, but do not have the power to search the non-residential premises where terrorist weapons and explosives may have been stored. If that is the position, the quicker we sort it out, the better.
Only the fifth power--the searching of pedestrians--needs a little more exploration. Anybody who has witnessed what, sadly, we see every day of the week--the vehicle and occupant searches in the streets around the Palace of Westminster--will know only too well what is involved. It is entirely proper that we should spend a moment or two asking ourselves whether we want to inflict that experience on pedestrians as well as on the occupants of vehicles.
I conclude quite simply that given the sophistication of today's terrorist and the ability to conceal items in a coat or jacket pocket rather than in a vehicle, and given the loopholes in the law that have been identified, it is total nonsense to contemplate continuing to allow the police to search vehicles and their occupants, but not to search pedestrians. I understand only too well the concerns that have been expressed by Labour Members, but I am reassured--as I understand are Labour Front-Bench Members--by the safeguards that have been spelt out by my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary and others. Given those safeguards and the current position, I believe that the fifth power is indeed necessary.
Finally, let me turn to the legislative haste. It would help to reassure the House if the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, North-East (Mr. Kirkhope), could say a little more about the reasons for that haste. As someone who is closely involved in Northern Ireland affairs, I suspect that the explanation for that lies in the confidential security briefings given to a select and privileged few and not shared with the remainder of us. Can my hon. Friend confirm that inquiries following the Canary wharf and Aldwych bombs led directly to the Bill? Although I do not want or expect anyone to give us the full details in public, it would help the House if my hon. Friend could confirm that the new security information that has come to light in the past few weeks has made it imperative that we act before Easter.
"of a force maintained for any other police"
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |