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Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby): The hon. Lady will be astonished to discover how much we agree about encouraging passengers and freight back to the railways. However, she described British Rail as a monument. Although some people are working very hard to encourage people on to the railways, unfortunately British Rail is a monument to the uselessness of a nationalised industry.
When the hon. Lady and I were born, there were 15 railway stations in my constituency. They have all been closed by nationalised British Rail. In the hon. Lady's constituency, there used to be a railway line from Handsworth towards West Bromwich, and from the centre of Birmingham near New Street station past Winson Green. Those lines were closed by nationalised British Rail. How can the hon. Lady describe British Rail as a monument?
Ms Short:
The hon. Gentleman will be interested to know that we are about to build a metro on that line, which runs through my constituency. That will be a lovely advancement of public transport provision for Birmingham and my constituency, and we look forward to it very much indeed.
I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the old British Rail was far from perfect, and that we need a higher quality model to achieve the levels of investment and the use of the railway to meet future needs; but it is absolutely clear that the old British Rail was better than the privatised model. That is proved by the fact that, each year, the Treasury has had to find an extra £850 million to provide lesser services from the privatised model than we had under British Rail. If something is imperfect, we should not make it worse; we should try to develop something better.
We in the Labour party are keen to be absolutely clear and straight with anyone contemplating investment in Railtrack. In my Swindon speech, which is printed in full in the prospectus, I set out our intentions. We want to be straight with all potential investors about the intentions of an incoming Labour Government.
I shall not dwell on those plans today, because today's aim is to halt the sale, but we have made it clear that a Labour Government will use all the levers at their disposal. We shall use the power of regulation, the power of the £2 billion subsidy, and the power to acquire ownership to reintegrate the railways under a renewed British Rail and to mobilise public and private partnership to increase investment in rail and secure the increase in passenger and freight use that the country needs.
I should say something about regulation, because many of the commentators on my Swindon speech missed an important point. We want all potential investors to be clear about our intentions.
The power of regulation over the railways is significant. The Rail Regulator is more powerful than any of the other utility regulators and his reach into the heart of Railtrack's business is far deeper. The powers exist now, and they will be useful to the new Government.
The existing mechanisms give the regulator considerable powers to secure changes to the regime as it applies to Railtrack. They do not require negotiation with Railtrack or its agreement; they can be effected, if necessary, against the wishes of Railtrack. Those changes may be made to alter Railtrack's obligations, and thus its priorities, in order to achieve the objectives of the public interest rather than those of the shareholders.
To place our hands directly and securely on those powerful levers of control and immediate change, we shall need only a simple amendment to the Railways Act 1993--to make the Rail Regulator answerable to the Secretary of State, and therefore the public interest, to a far greater extent than is now the case.
When that has been achieved, the new Labour Government will have at their disposal all--or substantially all--the means to control the economic behaviour of Railtrack in significant areas. Those include the direction of Railtrack's investment spending, controls on its access charges, restrictions on the disposal of its valuable land assets, and the possibility of a clawback on substantially all its property disposal income. I ask potential investors to look carefully at what I said about regulation in my Swindon speech, because the use of regulation to protect the national interest will change the likely rate of return to shareholders.
There it is. The sale of Railtrack will be deeply damaging to the national interest and terribly costly to the taxpayer.
Mr. Andrew Rowe (Mid-Kent)
rose--
Mr. John Home Robertson (East Lothian):
He is going to join the Labour party.
Mr. Rowe:
As Madam Speaker said earlier, one should not believe everything one reads in the newspapers.
Will the hon. Lady explain whether the powers that she proposes to take over Railtrack will return to profitability the company that she has just portrayed as certain to lose money?
Ms Short:
The powers that I described are intended to be used to ensure that Railtrack serves the national interest, and does not seek to maximise short-term profit and damage the national interest. The powers will be used to get more investment in rail and to develop greater use of rail, which is what this country's future and its transport needs require.
Mr. Nick Hawkins (Blackpool, South):
Will the hon. Lady explain why she is so proud of nationalised British Rail when, particularly under the last Labour Government in the 1970s, BR was not merely a national but an international joke?
Ms Short:
That was not a terribly impressive joke, either. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was listening when I answered the hon. Member for Blaby (Mr. Robathan).
The old British Rail was not perfect, but the privatised structure is worse. An incoming Labour Government will create something better. If the hon. Member for Blackpool, South (Mr. Hawkins) supports the Government tonight, he
will be helping to create something massively more costly and massively worse than the old British Rail. Conservative Members must face that fact.
The Secretary of State for Transport (Sir George Young):
I beg to move, to leave out from "House" to the end of the Question and to add instead thereof:
How relieved we are that the hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Ms Short) has been allowed to open the debate and give her overworked deputy a much-needed break. After the events of the weekend, we were concerned that the shadow Home Secretary might have dreamt up some new and terrible punishment for the hon. Lady. I quote the words of a senior Blair aide in The Guardian today:
Ms Hilary Armstrong (North-West Durham):
Will the Minister give way?
Sir George Young:
No, because I would like to cover a little of my journey before I pick up my first passenger.
Even the mild-mannered Opposition Chief Whip was obliged to pick up his pen to write an article that also appeared in The Guardian this morning. He used politer language, but none the less delivered a public rebuke under the trendy headline, "Don't rock the roll". We only wish that this debate could take place at 8 am on Sunday, as that is when the hon. Member for Ladywood speaks without restraint.
Sir George Young:
I shall give way in a moment.
Many Conservative Members can remember the days when Labour Members might have been criticised for suggesting that taxes on middle incomes should be cut. Not long ago, Labour voted against such reductions on a three-line Whip.
Mr. Peter Hain (Neath):
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Could the Secretary of State advise the House what on earth his speech has to do with the subject that we are discussing?
Madam Speaker:
Order. The Secretary of State should be allowed to develop his speech. He has been on his feet for only one minute.
"congratulates the Government on the progress that it is making with privatisation, with the franchising in the last three weeks alone of the InterCity East Coast, Gatwick Express and Network South Central lines, offering the prospects of better services and higher investment at less cost to tax-payers; recognises that this demonstrates that the Opposition's attempt to halt privatisation has failed; and looks forward to the flotation of Railtrack in May as a golden opportunity for the railways to gain access to the private finance necessary for investment, and for people to become real stakeholders in the railways, thanks to the Government's policy of wider share ownership".
"She accepted that she has screwed up big time."
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