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Mr. Dalyell: Perhaps many millions of pounds are involved. Should not that obligation be made clear in the prospectus?
Mr. Watts: Although the hon. Gentleman may be well--[Laughter.] The hon. Gentleman is obviously well. He may well be right that the cost of the repairs may run into millions of pounds. I have been talking about investment and renewal obligations running into billions
of pounds. In any event, from today's debate the significance of the Forth bridge will be seized upon by people outside the House.
My hon. Friend the Member for South-West Bedfordshire (Sir D. Madel) raised three matters, including the Dunstable bypass, which he introduced intriguingly by suggesting that savings made by the efficiencies of rail privatisation might be used to fund it. I will not make any commitments about sources of funding, but it is our intention to take forward the proposals for a planning conference and to examine the Dunstable bypass and associated transport issues in the area, including rail issues, as quickly as possible.
My hon. Friend the Member for South-West Bedfordshire expressed concerns about track-side safety. Under the new safety regime, which is much more rigorous than that which existed before restructuring, every business that undertakes work on the railway must prove its own safety case as a prerequisite of being permitted to undertake any work on the line. My hon. Friend the Member for South-West Bedfordshire mentioned the west coast main line. Railtrack has already let two contracts for the development of the new signalling and control system, and a third will be let shortly. Contracts for the main works will start to be let from June. The core project will be funded through existing, standard track access charges. Funding may be required for additional upgrades. Those matters will be considered when the cost and technical reviews of upgrade options are completed and discussions will take place between Railtrack, Opraf and the Department of Transport so that we can consider what funding may be necessary to enhance franchising of the route. The franchising director intends to bring forward the franchise for the west coast main line later this year.
My hon. Friend the Member for Keighley (Mr. Waller) said that the case for privatisation must be made on its merits and he went on to do so extremely well. He mentioned the benefits of fare regulation. Never before have passengers had the assurance that key fares will be pegged to the rate of inflation for three years and then to 1 per cent. below the rate of inflation for the four years thereafter. It is also clear that franchising is good news for passengers, who can see that, far from services being slashed, as our opponents have claimed falsely so many times, they are at least being maintained and in many instances being improved. Of course, franchising is also good news for taxpayers who can see that, for the first five franchises that have now been let, services that required a grant of £300 million to be operated by British Rail will be operated in the seventh year of the franchise for only £95 million. That is good news and it gives the lie to the claims that franchising is an expensive way to deliver rail services--quite the contrary.
My hon. Friend the Member for Keighley also mentioned rolling stock for the Airedale and Wharfedale lines. I hope that he will take comfort from the announcement today about south-eastern trains and the possibility of a franchise term long enough to justify new rolling stock. That shows that, far from privatisation and franchising being incompatible with the provision of new rolling stock, they will facilitate its delivery. I understand that the PTE is working on a replacement options report, which it hopes to have ready by the end of June or in early July. I have agreed to a meeting with the PTE, which
I hope my hon. Friend will lead, to discuss any ways in which the Department can help to ensure that the full benefits of the electrification of the line can be obtained.
The hon. Member for Hampstead and Highgate(Ms Jackson) entered the realms of fantasy when she claimed that privatisation would cost £2.6 billion. The reality is that the cost to the Government, from the start of the preparation to the end of the past financial year, is£145 million and the cost for British Rail and Railtrack is some £325 million. Against that, we have, so far, sale proceeds in excess of £2.3 billion. To put it another way, the total cost to date of £470 million is represented by only three years of savings on the average subsidy required for the first five franchises.
My hon. Friend the Member for Chorley (Mr. Dover) said that privatisation of Railtrack will deliver commercial investment funded by the private sector. The Labour alternative, of course, requires more funding through public sector borrowing, from higher fares or from higher taxation. We know that the hon. Member for Ladywood is prepared to pay more in taxes, because she has told us honestly that she is prepared to do that, but that does not run for other Opposition Members, so we must conclude that a Labour Government managing a nationalised railway would not find the funds that Labour Members say are needed to provide adequate investment.
My hon. Friend the Member for Chorley also mentioned access for disabled people. He will recognise that it is difficult to provide access at every station. Unfortunately, earlier generations did not build railway stations with disabled people in mind, but the Rail Regulator requires every train operating company to produce a disabled person's protection policy. The first step towards producing that is an inventory of the existing provision and facilities at stations, and that will be used as a benchmark against which further improvements will be measured.
The position is much brighter when it comes to access to rolling stock. Anglia Trains, Chiltern Railway, CrossCountry, Gatwick, Great Western, InterCity East Coast, InterCity West Coast, Island line, Mersey Rail Electrics and Midland Mainline, for example, are all operating fleets that are entirely accessible to peoplein wheelchairs. Other operators have mainly wheelchair-accessible rolling stock, even now.
The hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Pike) reminded me of the Government's responsibility, our having been in office for 17 years, to ensure that railways are in a position to operate efficiently and effectively. We accept that responsibility, and we are taking action in the form of the privatisation programme to bring about precisely the improvements in services that everybody recognises should be made.
The hon. Gentleman used the odd term "fragmentation". The network is not fragmented. It was a policy decision that the entire rail network should be owned and managed by Railtrack as an integrated network. Network benefits, such as through ticketing, are all guaranteed by arrangements made by the franchising director and the regulator.
Mr. Pike:
Will the Minister give way?
Mr. Watts:
No. I do not have time to give way to the hon. Gentleman. The hon. Member for Cunninghame, North, who responded to the debate for the Opposition, overran his time and I must make the best use of mine.
The hon. Member for Burnley talked about Railtrack asset values. Track access charges are based on replacement values because the purpose of the charges is to ensure that assets can be replaced with their modern equivalents. Fixed assets in the most recent accounts were valued at £4.3 billion. Account must be taken, however, of the company's liabilities. The net assets of Railtrack--assets less liabilities--are only £2.4 billion, not the exaggerated figure of £6.5 billion that Opposition Members are so keen to quote.
My hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle (Mr. Day) made some thoughtful observations on railway safety. It is still part of the culture to share experience on safety matters. Some of the so-called leaks on safety that make the Opposition so excited arise only because it is part of the system widely to disseminate information on safety matters within the industry. I particularly welcome my hon. Friend's support for the Government in defeating the Opposition's motion. Like many of my other hon. Friends, and hon. Members representing parties other than the Opposition, my hon. Friend is much too wily to be caught out by squalid little tricks from the Labour party.
Mr. Paul Boateng (Brent, South):
Is this the peroration?
Mr. Watts:
No. There is no peroration. I am trying to respond to the many points that have been made in a long debate.
The hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich(Mrs. Dunwoody) accused the Government of bad faith over the privatisation and flotation of Railtrack, as did other hon. Members. I shall set the record straight. My right hon. Friend the Member for Kettering(Mr. Freeman), the then Minister for Public Transport, said on 23 February 1993:
It is also true that my right hon. Friend said on Lords amendments on 1 November 1993:
Lord Caithness, the then Minister of State, Department of Transport, said in July 1993 that the Government had made it clear that
Any accusation of bad faith is totally without foundation.
I call on my right hon. and hon. Friends to defeat the Labour motion for the nonsense that it is and to support the amendment in the name of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister.
Question put, That the original words stand part of the Question:
"Railtrack will be in the public sector for the foreseeable future".--[Official Report, Standing Committee B, 23 February 1993; c.400.]
"Ultimately we wish to see Railtrack move into the private sector, although we cannot forecast when that will happen."--[Official Report, 1 November 1993; Vol. 231, c. 43.]
"Railtrack's existence as a government-owned company will last only until it is feasible to transfer it to the private sector." --[Official Report, House of Lords, 15 July 1993;Vol. 548, c. 354.]
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