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Sir Patrick Mayhew: We thought it desirable to use a local register; that is what we are going to use.
Sir Patrick Mayhew: Because a local representation seems a desirable thing. If the right hon. Gentleman wants to pursue that point, my right hon. Friend the Minister of State will deal with it more fully in the wind-up.
Sir Patrick Mayhew: I have already given way twice to the hon. Gentleman, and survived. I am not going to push my luck.
Moving back to the body of the Bill: clause 2 provides for the selection, from among delegates returned, of teams to participate in the negotiations, the proposed ground rules for which are published in the Command Paper. The Bill defines the negotiations by reference to that paper. We want all parties that have shown that they have sufficient electoral support to be involved in the negotiations.
Nevertheless, as both we and the Irish Government have consistently made plain, whether Sinn Fein takes its place in the negotiations is for the republican movement to decide. So that the position is clear, the Bill provides that I shall refrain from inviting nominations from any party where I consider that the requirements in the Command Paper are not met. I shall exercise that discretion, as was stated in the proposals of 21 March, after consultation, as appropriate, with the Irish Government.
Clause 3 speaks for itself. As the Bill itself makes plain, the forum is a deliberative body; it is no sense a legislative or proto-legislative one. Its purpose will be the discussion of issues relevant to promoting dialogue and understanding within Northern Ireland.
Mr. Dennis Canavan (Falkirk, West):
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Sir Patrick Mayhew:
I have given way frequently--
Mr. Canavan:
Not to me, you haven't.
Sir Patrick Mayhew:
I cannot give way to everyone.
The forum has no executive or administrative functions of any sort. Nor has it power to determine the conduct, course or outcome of the negotiations; but it may, by agreement among the participants in the negotiations as determined by their rules of procedures, consider matters referred to it by the negotiators.
Madam Speaker:
Order. The Secretary of State has made it clear that he is not giving way.
Sir Patrick Mayhew:
I am sorry; I have given way an awful lot, and now I must get on.
I believe that the forum has a most valuable role, neither threatening nor favouring any part of the community. It offers a new opportunity for people from differing political backgrounds to talk, and to listen to the views of others whom it may invite to address it, in order to promote dialogue and understanding. I believe that the forum offers real opportunities for constructive advance.
Mr. Canavan:
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Sir Patrick Mayhew:
I am sorry, but I have taken a long time over clause 3, so I hope that the hon. Gentleman will permit me to continue. Indeed, I have already been speaking for nearly 35 minutes.
Schedule 2 sets out a number of points about forum procedure. I shall not go through all the detail, but I should recall that the Government have already made clear their view that the forum should proceed by broad consensus. At the start, it will have a set of rules of procedure provided by me. The forum will then be empowered, as is right, to propose its own rules. They must be agreed by at least 75 per cent. of those participating in any vote, and they will then require my approval. The forum is also to elect its own chairman. For that too, a 75 per cent. majority will be required in any vote; until it has made its choice, the chairmanship falls to a member nominated by me.
Mr. McNamara:
I am sorry to be so persistent, and I do appreciate the fact that the right hon. and learned Gentleman has given way generously, but he has just raised one of the most controversial areas at stake. I refer to moving away from the criteria in paragraph 24 of the Command Paper--about rules of procedure having to have the support of both communities--and towards a system based on a weighted majority.
Why have the Government departed from what was stipulated in the Command Paper? If, say, the official Unionist party abstained from the forum, its cause might be lost because a 75 per cent. majority could not be reached. We need representation of both communities.
Sir Patrick Mayhew:
The written statement published after consultation made it clear that we believe that the forum should proceed on the basis of broad consensus. The hon. Gentleman will note in schedule 2 that, when a chairman or when rules of procedure are selected, a majority of 75 per cent. will be required. It will be for the
Clause 4 provides for referendums. Its provisions are broadly cast, sufficiently to permit consultation on any arrangements emerging from the negotiations. Any such proposals for a referendum would need to be approved by Parliament, and there is no encroachment on the provisions for a poll in section 1 of the Northern Ireland Constitution Act 1973.
After careful consideration, we have concluded that the case has not been made for a referendum to be held at the same time as elections. Clause 6 provides for payment of allowances to delegates for their participation in the negotiations or forum. Clause 7 gives one year as the life of the forum, but it may be continued in effect for a further year by order. It may also be suspended, and the Bill obliges me to provide for the forum to cease if negotiations are concluded or suspended--although it could be brought back into being if they subsequently resumed.
I regret the reasoned amendment. I know that the electoral system proposed in the Bill was not the first choice of any party, but, as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister explained, none of the systems put forward by the different parties had the support of major parties representing each of the main communities. The Government have sought to consult on the detail of the scheme, and we are grateful to the various parties for their responses.
In Committee next week, we shall have more opportunity for detailed scrutiny. I accept that the electoral system is novel, but I reject that it will be confusing for the electorate. The voters will simply have to put a cross against the party of their choice--one vote for one party, which seems very simple.
I have spoken of the opportunities that the Bill opens up for the political parties in Northern Ireland, and of the challenges with which it provides them, but I have not yet spoken of one other sector in Northern Ireland--the people. So often in the past, the men and women of Northern Ireland have had no role in the political part of the peace process. Too often, they had simply to stand by and watch, while politicians and Governments talked behind closed doors. For them, the Bill provides the greatest opportunity and challenge.
Ms Marjorie Mowlam (Redcar):
I endorse the Prime Minister's comments earlier today about last night's bomb. There is no way that parties can bomb their way to the negotiating table--that lesson must be learnt. We all share the view that such actions will not stand in the way of the peace process.
The Opposition welcome the package of measures, including the Bill, that is designed to enable negotiations to proceed on 10 June. We are pleased that the Government have come to share our view that it would be unfair to expect the parties in Northern Ireland to make judgments about the Bill without knowing the other proposals on offer. I am pleased that the Secretary of State spent some time this afternoon explaining the Command Paper on the ground rules for negotiations, which covered many of the issues that we consider important--such as decommissioning.
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