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8.26 pm
Ms Judith Church (Dagenham): I apologise to the House and to the Secretary of State for missing his speech this afternoon, but I was detained on constituency business.
Having learnt of the ill health of the hon. Member for Newry and Armagh (Mr. Mallon), I send my best wishes to him, and hope that he will make a speedy return to us. I am sure that the whole House will wish to join me in that.
We should acknowledge tonight the great toll that the work load in terms of the peace process takes on hon. Members, particularly those from Northern Ireland and those on both Front Benches. [Interruption.] I was not going to propose a pay rise, although I can see that some of my hon. Friends are a bit eager. It is a very heavy work load, and we must congratulate hon. Members on the tremendous progress that is being made, despite the difficulties.
I echo the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Redcar (Ms Mowlam) in supporting the Secretary of State over last night's bombing. We all agree that such atrocities are as pointless as they are destructive, and they have no place in a civilised debate on the future of Northern Ireland.
The Bill presents us with a concrete opportunity to take the peace process forward and to develop a path to real dialogue between the parties involved. Naturally, we support that aim, and anything that might bring it about. There are, however, a number of areas in the Bill that need clarification.
The first, as a number of hon. Members have said, is the status of the proposed forum. The House and the British people are conscious of the burden of history in
Northern Ireland. We are all concerned that the forum should not develop into an assembly controlled by one community, which would serve to divide the peoples of the Province rather than unite them. In that context, we would like more detail on the precise role and function of the forum and how it will work. I know that the way in which it will work will depend on the will, determination and commitment of the forum's members, but, given the number of hon. Members who have raised the issue today, the Minister may wish to tell us a little more.
Secondly, there is the problem referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for Redcar--the under-representation of women in Northern Ireland's political life. Of course, that is not peculiar to Northern Ireland; before what I just said is taken up, let me add that only 10 per cent. of Members of Parliament are women. But there are no female Northern Ireland Members, and I believe that only about 10 per cent. of Northern Ireland's councillors are women. We have not achieved equality in councils elsewhere in the United Kingdom, but we are fast approaching that point, and there has been a substantial increase in the number of women who take part in our democratic life at every level.
In the context of the troubles, it is understandable that this issue has not yet achieved any great prominence, but I think that it is an important element of Northern Ireland's political development. If any organisation, state, part of a state or community is to develop politically into a mature democratic forum, every part of the community must be represented. In particular, women need to be represented in our elected bodies.
Mr. Maginnis:
I could not agree more. On the basis of the hon. Lady's experience of her party, can she tell us how we might make progress?
Ms Church:
I am glad that the hon. Gentleman asked me that. No doubt his question could form the basis of a lengthy debate--but you will be pleased to learn, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that I have no intention of allowing that to happen.
I know that there is no quick fix, but, given the rate of progress in the House before our party developed strategies to increase the representation of women, it would take us between 250 and 300 years to achieve parity in the House. I do not expect equality of representation in the House to come about in my lifetime--although I intend to live for a long time, despite what some may think or wish--but I hope that we will improve considerably on the current 10 per cent. Of course, much of the problem is caused by the culture of all the political parties.
Dr. Robert Spink (Castle Point):
What would be the implications if Northern Ireland adopted one of the strategies of the hon. Lady's party for bringing more women to Parliament? Emily's List requires those standing for election to state in writing that they are in favour of abortion.
Ms Church:
That is a difficult issue. Anyone wishing to gain sponsorship from Emily's List must make that commitment, but, as the hon. Gentleman must know, that is not the only method that Labour has used to increase the representation of women.
For a long time, organisations such as the Northern Ireland Women's European Platform and the Downtown Women's Centre have struggled to deal with the problem of female under-representation, but there has been little public recognition of their work. The presence of the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition on the election lists is welcome, but that must be built on: we must increase the number of women who participate in the Province's political life, as political candidates rather than people who are merely part of the coalition.
A merging process must take place. The Government, and members of all political parties, have a responsibility to ensure that that happens. I know that it is not top of the list of priorities in the peace process, but I feel that, for the sake of the long-term health of Northern Ireland and of democracy in the House of Commons, we need more balanced representation.
My third point, which has already been mentioned, relates to the electoral system that has been chosen for the forum. I agree with much of what was said by the hon. Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone (Mr. Maginnis). I have been interested in electoral and constitutional reform for a long time. Last night, the all-party group in favour of constitutional reform held its initial meeting in the House, and I think that those of us who believe that constitutional and electoral reform are an important part of the House's agenda are beginning to act more collectively.
I do not want to make a specific party point, but let me point out that Labour is the only political party in the country that has spent a long time examining electoral systems in general. It set up the Plant commission, which sat for three years and produced a comprehensive review of all the work that had been done on electoral reform. I do not wish to bore for Britain on the issue of electoral systems--perhaps it would be more appropriate to say "bore for the United Kingdom"--but we must have consensus. We must recognise that there is no perfect electoral system. The electoral system that is adopted depends on the functions of the elected body, and on what we wish it to do.
The commission, under the excellent chairmanship of Lord Plant, spent a long time examining all the existing electoral systems around the world. Some of its members went to Germany, and we had representations from Australia, New Zealand, Israel and many other countries whose electoral systems are different from the predominant UK systems--first past the post, and, in Northern Ireland, the single transferable vote.
We did not, of course, have an opportunity to consider the electoral system that the Bill proposes. It is an innovation. We all agreed, however, that it requires some mathematical ability to think through the way in which an electoral system might work. Those who are not of a mathematical bent may be put off by what the formulae in clauses 8 and 9 would mean in practice. A good deal of education will be needed. I am fortunate in having a degree in mathematics, but I have sometimes found the subject difficult, nevertheless.
Three years is a long time in which to examine electoral systems as a member of a commission. We have not that much time in which to decide on the right electoral system for the forum: if it took as long as that, the peace process would be halted for a long period. In a sense, the right electoral system must be plucked out of the air. I do not
know whether the Secretary of State will agree with me, but I suspect that the proposal in the Bill has been plucked out of the air; it has certainly not been plucked out of any textbook.
Mr. Roy Beggs (East Antrim):
Does the hon. Lady agree that, as there is so much at stake for all of us in Northern Ireland, within the United Kingdom and within these islands, we should not be made guinea pigs yet again?
Ms Church:
When a new system is introduced, somebody has to be the guinea pig. The difficulty is that none of the existing electoral systems, which were clearly considered by the Government, suited the purpose of the forum. Perhaps the Minister will want to speak about that.
"Guinea pigs" is not exactly the right term for the proposed system, which will, I hope, address many concerns. Of course it will not be perfect, but the electoral system matters. One of the dangers in proposing a new system quickly, which is what has happened here, is that it may end up being permanent. The hon. Members for Upper Bann (Mr. Trimble) and for Fermanagh and South Tyrone spoke about that, and my hon. Friend the Member for Falkirk, West (Mr. Canavan) spoke about the Palestinian elections.
We must make progress, and we cannot let the difficulty of arriving at a system hold us back. That does not mean that we should not point out difficulties in trying to explain the system to the electorate. Electoral systems are complicated, and part of political progress must be political education, so that the electorate understands how democracy works. If we do not do that, we have failed.
This is a contentious issue. If it were not, it would not be debated at such length, and I would not have spoken about it as I have. I do not criticise the Government for proposing this electoral system. I have not had time to look closely at it and at the criteria, but I hope that somebody did that before proposing this system in the Bill. The system may not be perfect, but we must ensure that it is as close as we can make it. Some amendment may be needed to achieve that.
Politicians must never forget that the people will ultimately decide on whether the peace process is a success or a failure. As a result of the Bill, they will shortly be given the opportunity to voice their views and to give their consent to the next steps in the process. That is wonderful progress, and, despite some of the criticisms, it will reassure the citizens of Northern Ireland--which is perhaps what they need above all--that the peace process is being moved forward. That will help to allay their concern that the process was not moving as rapidly as it should.
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