| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Mr. Garnier: Would the use of the word "published", as it applies in the law of defamation, be of assistance? In that sense, it means making known to a third party. Would that be of assistance to my hon. Friend?
Mr. Batiste: We are fortunate to have available free of charge the advice of one of the most eminent barristers in the country on such matters. I am sure that my hon. and learned Friend's wise words will be taken on board by my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon, South, who has done such a splendid job in promoting the Bill, to see whether there is a weakness that could be addressed.
It is clear that, throughout the House and throughout the country, there is a strong determination that we should live up to our obligations under article 34 of the United Nations convention to prevent the sexual exploitation of children around the world. The Bill takes a small step in that direction, and for that reason I strongly welcome it. Nevertheless, further steps need to be taken. If the
Government, in their review of the issue of extra-territoriality, can go a step further, there will be a wide welcome for further legislation.
Mr. John Marshall:
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
I hope that I am reflecting the mood of the House when I say that, following our debates on Second Reading, in Committee and on Report, I detect widespread support for the Bill coupled with a feeling of regret that it may not go as far in some respects as some of my colleagues would like. One of the things that appals the whole country is the depths of depravity to which some individuals will go and the extent of the problem in certain other countries.
An article in The Times on 10 April stated that some 200,000 Nepalese children had been sold into sexual slavery in India. It stated that, in Thailand, as many as a quarter of a million children were in brothels and that, in Colombia, one third of all prostitutes were thought to be under the age of 14. One could go on and refer to countries such as Romania where many children become prostitutes at an age at which, in this country, one would hope that they enjoyed the innocence of childhood.
Those countries have a great deal to do. They must realise that the good of their children and the future of their country must come before taking a few cheap bucks from disgusting western tourists. That is the problem with which they have to deal, but we must try to help them. I do not pretend that the passage of the Bill will put an end to the disgraceful activities of British child molesters who travel abroad to pursue their disgusting activities. It will not. I suspect that, at the end of the day, there is nothing that we can do to stop some of them, but we can certainly make it more difficult for them. We can ensure that individuals in this country who seek to make a trade or a business out of encouraging other people to molest young children find it much more difficult to do so.
Those who attended the Second Reading debate will remember that I referred to a publication that was going around Hampshire. People were paying a large amount to get a guide to sexual holidays in the far east and Latin America. I was pleased to hear that, the week after the Bill received its Second Reading, the individuals who had been distributing the publication decided that it had become too hot to handle and took it out of circulation. We have done some good already.
I shall briefly remind the House of what the Bill does, clause by clause. Clause 1 makes it an offence to conspire in England and Wales to commit certain sexual offences against children abroad. Conspiracy means agreement on a course of conduct. It would certainly include
arrangements between a tour operator and a client to provide travel facilities where an acknowledged purpose of the trip was the sexual abuse of children. But the clause goes much wider than that.
Many of these creatures, although they make their own arrangements for travel and accommodation, plan their trips with others of their kind. It is not unknown for a group of paedophiles to talk in the United Kingdom about what they might do when they go to, for example, Thailand, Romania, Colombia or Peru. They plan their trip, and then go abroad and engage in their disgraceful activities.
Clause 1 also sets certain conditions which must be satisfied before the conspiracy amounts to an offence under our laws. The conspiracy must lead to an act or event taking place outside the United Kingdom. That, of course, is what the Bill is all about. If the act or event contemplated takes place in this country, the conspiracy is already an offence. The act or event must be an offence in the country in which it is intended to take place. That is the so-called dual criminality test, and it is an important safeguard because we must recognise that the age of consent is different in, for example, various European Community countries.
We in Parliament rightly consider that it is our function to pass laws that apply in the territory of the United Kingdom. We would take great exception if the law-making body of another country attempted to pass laws that would apply here. If, for example, an Arab country where drink was forbidden made it an offence for someone to go to Scotland and have a glass of the local nectar, we would regard that as offensive against our laws and against that great industry. I am sure that no one agrees with that point more strongly than my right hon. Friend the Minister.
The intended act must amount to conduct that falls within the scope of the sexual offences against children set out in the schedule. The final condition is that some part of the conspiracy, but not necessarily all the conduct that constitutes the offence, must take place in England and Wales. I think that it would be better to say the United Kingdom--and long may it remain a united kingdom--because all parts of it are covered by the Bill. The hon. Member for Cumbernauld and Kilsyth (Mr. Hogg) made the good point in Committee that the Bill emphasises the need for a United Kingdom Parliament. If we had a devolved Scottish Assembly legislating on Scottish matters, there could be different rules in England and Wales, and in Scotland. I note the way in which hon. Members intervened on that issue.
Clause 2 makes it an offence to incite another person to commit certain sexual acts against children abroad. Incitement is the act of encouraging others to do something. The amendments to which we agreed earlier have strengthened the powers in the Bill. People who use informative advertising, as they would call it, by putting messages on the Internet will now be covered by the Bill. The Bill could include advertising material in the case of tour operators. However, if two or more perverts discuss where to go to indulge in their activities, any encouragement one gives to the other may well amount to incitement.
The other clauses give the law enforcement agencies a good chance of erecting a substantial barrier against these disgusting activities. The penalties under the Bill are substantial, and for certain acts of conspiracy the penalty could amount to life imprisonment. That shows how strong and tough the legislation can be.
If we are to put a stop to those disgusting activities and children of eight, nine and 10 being sold into a life of sexual perversion at a time when they should not know anything about sex, it is up to the Governments of these countries to move. We have seen that they are willing to move strongly against the drug trade. They must move just as strongly against prostitution by young 10, 11 and 12-year-olds.
It is up to the Governments of Thailand, the Philippines and Latin America to say that they want to stop that disgusting trade and that they put the future of their children first. Those Governments must ensure that their children lead a decent life, rather than having the whole of their lives blackened by activities that take place when they are so young. They should not be affected by the disgusting perverts who travel to other countries and who engage in such disgraceful behaviour.
Mr. Cox:
I pay the warmest tribute to the hon. Member for Hendon, South (Mr. Marshall). Many of us regard him as a good friend, and he has done a great service to the House and to the country by presenting the Bill. We all know, whatever part of the country we represent, about the correspondence that we receive from constituents calling for tough legislation. Nothing sickens people more than the sexual exploitation of children and, especially, the behaviour of nationals from our country who travel abroad solely to engage in the abuse of young people. We also know, because the point was made by many hon. Members on Second Reading, in which countries those practices take place.
We have also had information circulated to us by highly respected organisations that have long campaigned for major changes in legislation, not only in our country but throughout the world. No organisation has been more involved than the United Nations Children's Fund. UNICEF has done superb work for many years, not only to reduce the sexual abuse of young people but to improve the general overall welfare of young people and children throughout the world.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |