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5.45 pm
Mr. Trimble: I understand the argument made by the hon. Members for Spelthorne (Mr. Wilshire) and for Falkirk, West (Mr. Canavan). We are dealing with some strange concepts hitherto unknown in terms of British electoral law, and I understand their distaste for the system that we have. I have every sympathy for the view expressed by the hon. Member for Spelthorne that it is dangerous for Governments to license political parties.
However, that consequence flows inevitably from the choice of a party list system. It is not a desirable or necessary consequence. It is inevitable only in the current circumstances, where a party list system is being introduced quickly, with inadequate time to put the necessary legislation and procedures on the statute book.
In a party list system, the focus is on the party. There must be some procedure to regulate political parties, or at least to regulate the use of their names. In every country where there are party list systems, which are common, there are procedures to regulate the use of names and to provide a regulation scheme for political parties.
Mr. Wilshire:
I understand the hon. Gentleman's point, but can he not see that there is a big difference between regulating the name of a party that freely forms itself and regulating the formation of the party?
Mr. Trimble:
I take the hon. Gentleman's point. If he would allow me to develop my argument, he will find that we are not that far apart. The essence of my point is that we have arrived at this position because of a decision to introduce a party list system without there being sufficient time to do it properly. Therefore, it is being done in an undesirable way. At that point, the arguments of the hon. Gentleman and myself are probably getting close to each other.
The use of party names should be regulated by establishing a judicial procedure whereby a party that believes that its name is being used improperly can challenge the existence or the use of that name by other persons or parties. Looking at the list, I find that an obvious example is the body that suddenly came into existence in Northern Ireland--if it did so at all, which is not known--calling itself the British Ulster Unionist party. That name is close to that of the Ulster Unionist party. Under a system to regulate the use of party political names, which exists in some countries, it would be open to our party to commence proceedings against that other party for the improper use of its name. So there could be some form of judicial process dealing with the regulation of parties. If that course is taken, it is done outside the political circle. Some form of judicial or quasi-judicial procedure could be set up, which would not have the dangerous implication involved in Governments licensing political parties--a system which, like the hon. Member for Spelthorne, I believe that we should avoid.
Unfortunately, I believe that the decision to adopt a party list system was wrong and that it results in an unsatisfactory situation. Having reached that unsatisfactory situation, we must try to find a solution. That suggested by the hon. Member for Spelthorne was to have a number of assentors, and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will recognise that that is not far away from one of the suggestions in our amendment No. 46, which has been selected for debate later. I merely want to draw attention to the similarity in principle between that amendment and amendment No. 74. Our amendments Nos. 43 and 44 are directed towards the same issue, and we shall debate them later. All the amendments stem from the problems caused by a party list system. Our amendments Nos. 42 and 49, which are included in this group, draw attention to the problem.
We have no evidence that the British Ulster Unionist party exists, but those associated with it may feel that it is unfair for us to concentrate the ire of our amendment
on them. We could easily have selected another body. In the list of 30 persons and parties, there are a number of bodies with which we are not familiar. Consequently, my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast, South (Rev. Martin Smyth) tabled a question to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland asking what evidence he had as to the existence of those groups and whether they were functioning as political parties. The answer has not yet appeared in Hansard, but my recollection of the reply that I saw yesterday evening--I am sure that the Minister will correct me if I am wrong--suggests that the only evidence was that the Northern Ireland Office had received a letter claiming that the party existed and wanted to be on the register.
While the hon. Member for Spelthorne considers it dangerous for the Government to license political parties, they are issuing licences to anyone who writes a letter. That is rather curious. It appears that the Government made no effort--again I look to the Minister to see whether he wishes to respond--to find out whether those who wrote the letters represent genuine parties. Those who write letters have, hitherto, got their name on the list, but those who do not write letters do not have their names on the list. That may cause some interest to various parties and may be behind the comment made by the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, North (Mr. McNamara). As the legislation now stands, those who write the letters will not be required to do anything else to prove that they are genuine except to find the names of two persons prepared to be submitted initially to a constituency list and then possibly elsewhere.
That is unsatisfactory, and something needs to be done. We wait to hear from the Minister what that something should be. He knows that we have made various suggestions in later amendments which are directed to dealing with this. Something must be done to alert the public to what are and what are not genuine names.
In normal elections, the ballot paper presents the voter with the names of candidates and the description. In normal British elections, the focus has always been on the names of the candidates and little concern has been taken over the description. I think that I am right in saying that there was an election in England and Wales when six people who claimed to be members of the Social Democratic party, which no longer exists, all appeared on the ballot paper. That occurred because, as I have said, under British electoral practice, the focus is on the names of the candidates who will be active in their constituencies promoting themselves.
There is a potential solution there, and it arises in an amendment that has been selected for discussion later. I shall not discuss the matter further now. We need to move the procedure involved in these elections closer to that of normal elections. That would be a solution. Failing that, something else needs to be done and we want to hear what the Government have to say.
I should make some comment about amendment No. 49, which deals with a specific anomaly which must be cured. The present list refers to parties and independents. For independents, their name is given and for parties, the party name is given, but with one exception. Without any reflection on the person or the party concerned, we need consistency. I wait to hear what the Minister has to say. The purpose of the amendment is to draw attention to the inconsistencies in the way in which the Government are proceeding. That inconsistency is wrong in principle. If we
have a party list system--although we disagree with that concept--the focus should be on the party, and if there have to be names, they should be the names of the candidates.
Mr. Peter Robinson:
I shall speak to amendments Nos. 14 and 11. I can see at once the difficulties that the Government had in framing legislation around the principles in the Bill, particularly in the schedule listing political parties. There are two factors which suggest that it is not as complex and cumbersome as it might look in the schedule. I rather suspect that there will be very few, if any, constituencies where the 30 names in part II of the schedule will appear on the ballot paper. Some of those parties will not present themselves in various constituencies.
The real test of whether we have produced a difficult system depends on the electors. They have a fairly simple task and have only to scan the list of parties and put a cross beside the party of their choice. So, with one exception, it is not too difficult for the electors. Where there are party names that can cause confusion, the elector can make the wrong choice and vote for a candidate unintentionally. Therefore, we must look at the list on the basis of what principles should determine the parties on it and how they appear. That is the basis of the two amendments in my name.
Amendment No. 14 is similar to that of the hon. Members for Falkirk, West (Mr. Canavan) and for Spelthorne (Mr. Wilshire). I do not think that it is for Parliament to limit the political parties contesting an election. That would be a bad principle to establish. We are saying that, for ease, there should be a list of established parties in the schedule, but there should be a mechanism whereby others can be registered and duly nominated as a political party if they meet the criteria.
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