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12.51 am
Ms Mowlam: The Bill, which we support this morning, has the chance to set in train events that offer the first real hope of meaningful all-party negotiations since the IRA ceasefire in August 1994. Tragically, that ceasefire is no longer in place--it was broken on 9 February by a wanton act of violence which threatened to tear the peace process apart.
With the Bill, the House has shown that we will not be diverted from the path of peace by such acts. With talks in sight and a clear route to the table marked out, there is no excuse for the IRA not to restore its ceasefire. We support those who have worked so hard since 9 February to ensure that the ceasefire is retained among loyalist groups. That work must continue.
Elections will be held on 30 May and talks will start on 10 June--after that, the route is much less clear. The issue of decommissioning paramilitary weapons will have to be addressed in line with the communique of28 February and the Mitchell report. That is a crucial part of building the trust and confidence--which clearly have some way to go--that have been sought throughout the peace process. Also crucial to building that trust and confidence, as the ground rules document says, is the need for all parties to be assured that a meaningful and inclusive process of negotiations is genuinely being offered. To that effect, we fully support the two Governments in strongly commending the joint framework document as the basis for negotiations.
During the passage of the Bill, the Secretary of State has accepted a number of amendments from hon. Members on both sides of the House. We welcome in particular the amendments that addressed the question of the forum's procedures and dealt with the relationship between the forum and the negotiations, and their timing. We believe that that provides crucial reassurances to the House and to the people of Northern Ireland.
The Secretary of State's acceptance of our amendment No. 55 should provide important assurances for both communities, especially the nationalist community, that their views will not be overridden, but that the focus and culture of the forum will be to seek consensus across the communities. Word to that effect will now be in the Bill, thanks to our amendment. We are grateful to the Secretary
of State and to the Minister for offering reassurances on those points and on how consultations with the different parties on the rules of procedure will continue, based on consensus, dialogue and understanding.
The passage of the Bill in the past two days has been at times chaotic and confusing. It may not be the best legislation that the House has produced, but in terms of the time constraints, it is the best that we have managed. We wish to add our thanks to those who have serviced the House during the past 36 hours when we have sat so late. I am sorry that the hon. Member for Newry and Armagh (Mr. Mallon) was not able to be with us. We have missed his contribution and wish him a speedy recovery.
Rev. Ian Paisley:
I wish to make some remarks on the Bill and how it came to be put before us. We remember that the Prime Minister made it clear from the Dispatch Box that a door to proper negotiations should be opened. Negotiations had been going on behind closed doors, mainly with those who were responsible for bombing, killing and other atrocities. The general public never knew what happened behind those closed doors--what deals were brokered or what promises and assurances were given.
We saw those who were closely associated with vicious acts of terrorism and murder being given offices in the Stormont complex. Their leaders had separate offices and facilities and the members had separate offices and facilities, including members of IRA-Sinn Fein, who have never denounced any act of violence and whose leader refused to condemn, even slightly, the Canary wharf bomb. That leader was installed in the Stormont complex, with his name on the door as president of Sinn Fein and paid for by taxpayers' money.
I resent what was said from the Opposition Front Bench earlier, calling the loyalist groups Protestant gunmen. They are not Protestant gunmen; they are so-called loyalist gunmen. If I talked about the Roman Catholic IRA in the House, I would be shouted at from all quarters, but the Opposition are quite prepared to take the name of Protestantism and use it as a label.
Rev. Ian Paisley:
Your deputy did that today at the Dispatch Box. That is a very serious matter as far as I am concerned. If one body can be described in one way, others should be able to describe other bodies in a similar way. I remember that when I was a young Member of the House, 20 years ago, I tried to table a motion that mentioned the Roman Catholic IRA. The Clerk told me that he could not accept that, so I took in a motion that Mr. Fitt had tabled that mentioned the Protestant UVF. I asked the Clerk about that and he said that he would have to see Mr. Fitt and get it changed.
The House must realise that it should be fair and even-handed to all parties in the dispute. Of course, even this debate has not been even-handed. The Prime Minister came to the House and said that we will have an election. Of course, that was bitterly and scurrilously opposed by
Dick Spring and his ilk in Dublin, who said all manner of things about elections, as if the people of Northern Ireland were not fit to have an election. We were told that an election would only exacerbate the situation, that it would divide the community and that we could not reach a consensus. What happened? The Prime Minister persisted with the idea that we should have an election.
As I have said, on 24 January the Prime Minister intimated to the House, in reply to the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition, that he would call for the election. The leader of the Liberal party, the Leader of the official Opposition and other leaders went with him on the proposal. The Prime Minister said:
He went on:
those were his words--
That particular proposition was vigorously attacked in the House and amendments were tabled to try to bring about what the Prime Minister promised the people of Northern Ireland at the Dispatch Box would be the result of the election. Those amendments were rejected by the Government whom he leads.
As I have already pointed out, the Prime Minister made another statement to the House on 21 March. He said:
I stress, "provide"--
There is no such provision. I ask the Government to show me one line of a firm provision. In fact, the Government say that they can do it, but there is no legislative power for them to do it. If that is challenged by those in the forum who do not like the forum and want to have it destroyed, what will the Government do?
A provision should have been written into the Bill giving the forum the power to conduct hearings at which public submissions by relevant bodies or individuals could be made. But those two things went by the board. Why? Because of the power of a foreign Government, the Government of the Irish Republic, who leant on the Government and said, "No, you can't do these things." Nor can they when the Dublin Government take it into their head that such things cannot be done.
We have heard great praise of the Anglo-Irish Agreement. I was amazed by the hon. Member for Belfast, West (Dr. Hendron), who told us that it was a success. If the Anglo-Irish Agreement brought about what everyone seems to want and was a success, why are we here? But it did not bring that about. It could not bring it about. Now it is said that we need a wider agreement. Why, if it was a success?
That agreement was supposed to be the basis of a success. The two Governments would, for the first time, sit round the table, there would be no megaphone diplomacy, they would have a love-in every month and all would go well. But it did not. Then the Government said that they must do something more and we had talks. Those talks came to an end. Who brought them to an end? The Unionists? No. The other representatives from Northern Ireland? No. The southern Government brought them to an end. The southern Government agreed that there would be no Anglo-Irish conference while those talks were going.
On two occasions, the Irish Government decided that they would bring the talks to an end. Why? Because they were not comfortable at those talks. What were they not comfortable about? They were not comfortable about articles 2 and 3 which, at the beginning of the talks, they told us they would address--the same word that has been used before--in such a way that the Unionists would be amazed at how far they would go. They said that their generosity would amaze us. When the matter was first raised at the talks, the representatives of the Dublin Government told us that the best day's work that De Valera ever did was to write articles 2 and 3 into the constitution of the Irish Republic and that they would not budge an inch. Some Unionists--not of my party--went to Dublin to see whether it would help to talk there. When they returned, I asked Sir Ninian Stephen what happened. He said that they got nothing officially or unofficially. I see the leader of the UUP--the party involved--nodding his head. Nothing was gained.
Articles 2 and 3 lay claim to Northern Ireland. They not only lay claim to Northern Ireland but are now buttressed by a finding in the Irish High Court that they are a constitutional imperative for every Minister who takes office in the south of Ireland. Thus, claiming our territory is their objective.
When one of the member states takes on the presidency of the European Union, it is a custom for that member state to play host to all the ambassadors in its capital cities. Some time ago, the United Kingdom held that presidency and the procedure started. A meeting was held in London which all the ambassadors, including the Irish ambassador, attended. There were then meetings in Edinburgh and Cardiff, and the same happened.
"As for the election and the purposes for which it could be used, I see it being used to determine which parties would participate in the talks, and to give each party with elected representation a fresh electoral mandate--testing the extent of its democratic support in current circumstances. I see the election providing a pool of representatives from which party delegations to the talks could be drawn, and a means to index the strength of the parties' delegations in the talks process."
"Apart from that, of course"--
"I see the election providing, by weighted majority vote, an initial mechanism for testing widespread acceptability within Northern Ireland of the outcome of any talks process."--[Official Report,24 January 1996; Vol. 270, c. 357.]
"The legislation will also provide"--
"for the forum to be able to conduct hearings at which public submissions by relevant bodies or individuals can be made."--[Official Report, 21 March 1996; Vol. 274, c. 498.]
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