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Orimulsion
12. Mr. Simon Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what assessment he has made of the net effect on local employment in Pembrokeshire if orimulsion is used as proposed in the production of power. [25643]
Mr. Hughes: Well, I suggest that the Minister should. Will he reflect on the fact that, if the current plans for an orimulsion plant in Pembrokeshire--which I understand are waiting for one final authorisation--go ahead, although the prospect is presented as advantageous because it may produce a few jobs, there is a wide general view that the disadvantages environmentally and in terms of tourism of that beautiful part of south-west Wales having at its heart an orimulsion plant will grossly outweigh any short-term small employment advantages? Will the Minister undertake to carry out a full proper employment and environmental assessment on the economy of Pembrokeshire?
Mr. Richards: The application for consent to burn orimulsion at the Pembroke power station is still under consideration by my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade. Until my right hon. Friend has received the views of all the regulatory authorities, no decisions will be made, including whether there is a need for a public inquiry.
Mr. Rogers: Surely everyone recognises that orimulsion is one of the dirtiest fuels that is available for combustion in power stations and contains an enormous amount of heavy metal toxic material compared with other fuels. In view of the recent disaster that has halved the income of the people of Pembrokeshire from tourism--reducing it by some £100 million--what
proposals do the Government have to compensate people for that loss? What proposals do they have to cut the pollution caused by the burning of that dirty fuel?
Mr. Richards: My understanding is that the hon. Gentleman was referring to the Sea Empress disaster, in which case I cannot possibly comment until the report of the marine accident investigation branch is published.
Mr. Dafis: May I emphasise that, unlike the Labour party in Pembrokeshire, my party supports the demand for a full public inquiry into the orimulsion application? As well as urging the President of the Board of Trade to set up a public inquiry, the Welsh Office should consider what longer-term employment opportunities might be created in Pembrokeshire through a proper energy conservation programme. Is not that the way ahead? What is the Welsh Office doing to ensure that the Home Energy Conservation Act 1995 is implemented in Wales as soon as possible so that the jobs can be created and environmental gains made?
Mr. Richards: As I said a moment ago, the decision on a public inquiry will not be made until all the facts are available. With regard to jobs in that part of the world, the hon. Gentleman knows that I and my right hon. and hon. Friends have taken a close interest in the west Wales task force which, I believe, was set up by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wirral, West (Mr. Hunt). We are conscious of the particular economic problems of the area and are doing our utmost to attract new investment.
Male Unemployment
13. Mr. Roy Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what is the figure for male unemployment in Newport and Wales at the latest available date and expressed in percentage terms. [25644]
Mr. Richards: In March 1996, the unadjusted number of males on the claimant unemployment count in the Newport travel-to-work area was 5,977. That is 10.6 per cent. of the male work force. The corresponding figures for Wales were 83,039 and 11.2 per cent.
Mr. Hughes: Is the Minister concerned about the huge disparity between male and female unemployment inasmuch as many more men are out of work because the jobs lost in heavy industry were never replaced? Does not that suggest that the Government's jobs policy, far from being the success that they claim, is a huge disaster?
Mr. Richards: On the contrary, most of the jobs in the traditional heavy industries of south Wales have been replaced. In the hon. Gentleman's own constituency, unemployment fell by 221 in the 12 months to March this year. Since 1990, 11 plants have opened in the hon. Gentleman's constituency with 502 jobs gained. There are 10 foreign-owned manufacturing plants in the hon. Gentleman's constituency employing 1,875 people. I wish that the hon. Gentleman would stop being a Job's comforter.
Hospital Waiting Lists
14. Mrs. Clwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on out-patient and in-patient waiting lists (a) in Wales and (b) in the Cynon Valley. [25645]
Mr. Richards: Hospital waiting lists have fallen significantly in Wales recently. In the calendar year 1995, the number of out-patients waiting for a first appointment fell 14 per cent. while the number waiting for admission for treatment in hospital fell 9 per cent.
Separate figures are not available for the Cynon Valley, but the Merthyr and Cynon Valley unit, now the North Glamorgan NHS trust, reported a fall in out-patient waiting lists of an impressive 36 per cent. in 1995. The fall in the in-patient and day case waiting list was 3 per cent. To put that last figure into perspective, I should add that, currently, no patient has to wait longer than 18 months for admission to the trust for treatment.
Mrs. Clwyd:
That is not quite as splendid as it sounds. More than 2,000 people in the Merthyr and Cynon Valley area have been waiting more than one year for admission to hospital, and some of them are in considerable discomfort and distress. Is that situation due to the fact that 2,500 beds have disappeared from Wales since 1990 and that hospital consultants spend much of their time re-admitting people to hospital who should never have been discharged in the first place--but were, because beds were not available?
Mr. Richards:
I wish that the hon. Lady would stop knocking the national health service--just as her colleagues do--thereby trying to undermine morale in the NHS. Of all Opposition Members, the hon. Lady probably knocks most. I wish also that the hon. Lady would give the new North Glamorgan NHS trust a chance, given that it has been in existence only a few days and I have only recently appointed a chairman.
Export Control
28. Mr. Llew Smith: To ask the Attorney-General what prosecutions have been initiated against alleged breaches of export control law regarding sales to Iraq or Iran since the publication of the Scott report. [25661]
The Attorney-General (Sir Nicholas Lyell): I am informed by Her Majesty's Customs and Excise that no prosecutions have been commenced in relation to export licence violations to Iran or Iraq since the publication of the Scott report.
Mr. Smith: Will the Minister comment on the statement on page 851 of volume II of the Scott report:
- "If it is right, and I think it is, that Government policy on exports to Iraq was to some extent undermined by the use of Jordan as a diversionary route, the decision that that was a price that was worth paying in order to preserve the political advantages"--
Madam Speaker: Order. I had not realised that the hon. Gentleman was quoting. In Question Time,
hon. Members should not quote directly, but paraphrase. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will do so--or give an indication of the matter to which he is referring--and I am sure that the Minister will respond.
Mr. Smith: Does the Minister think that it is right that third countries should be used by military exporters to circumvent the rules on arms exports?
The Attorney-General: No, that is most unlikely to be right--but the part that it plays in any individual prosecution will depend on the facts.
Sentencing
29. Mr. John Marshall: To ask the Attorney-General how many appeals he has made against unduly lenient sentences. [25662]
The Solicitor-General (Sir Derek Spencer): Since 1989, 294 cases have been referred in England and Wales, and 15 have been referred in Northern Ireland. Twenty-two of those cases were subsequently withdrawn. Of the cases heard to date by the Court of Appeal, 85 per cent. have resulted in an increase in sentence.
Mr. Marshall: May I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for that answer, which demonstrates the irresponsibility of those who opposed the introduction of that power? His answer will be warmly welcomed by the many people who believe that some judges no longer sit on this planet.
The Solicitor-General: To convert my hon. Friend's sentiment into concrete cases, 201 persons whose sentences have been increased would have escaped justice had the Opposition got their way. Among the persons who would have escaped justice are those who have committed crimes of manslaughter, rape, robbery and others of the most serious crimes in the criminal calender.
Mrs. Dunwoody: Before the hon. and learned Gentleman congratulates himself too much, may I ask him how many of those cases relate to rape? There is very worrying evidence that sentencing in such cases is becoming lighter and that fewer people are sent for trial than was the case even five years ago.
The Solicitor-General: The hon. Lady is mistaken in suggesting that sentences for rape have fallen; the reverse is the case. Since the guideline case of R v. Billam, sentences for rape have increased quite markedly. The starting point for sentencing in such cases is five years, in cases in which there is one or more aggravating features the starting point is eight years; in the worst cases, double figure sentences are reached. I can tell the hon. Lady that we have referred 31 cases of rape since the jurisdiction was conferred on us, which is 11 per cent. of the total. Rape cases are the fourth most likely type of case to be referred by us. The most likely cases to be referred are robbery, those under section 18 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 and death caused by driving. Rape comes somewhere down the list.
Mr. John Morris: The Solicitor-General will be aware of the Home Secretary's concern that the actual term
served in prison is too lenient. Does the Solicitor-General agree with Lord Justice Rose's view that there is "tangle and confusion" in court sentencing powers, a tangle that flows directly from--and as recently as--the Government's Criminal Justice Act 1991? Has the Attorney-General been consulted by the Home Secretary about his determination to reduce judges' discretion and to compel them to impose minimum sentences? Will he tell the House what are the Attorney-General's views?
The Solicitor-General: The right hon. and learned Gentleman will, indeed, be off this planet if he takes the view that the vast majority of the British public are not completely behind my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary in the proposals that he has introduced. In his remarks, Lord Justice Rose was referring to the impact of sentencing provisions on a juvenile case at a particular time. Those provisions are no longer in force.
Sir Ivan Lawrence: Is it right that one of those "tangles" was sorted out in the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, and that the most important action that can be taken to ensure that unnecessarily lenient sentences are corrected is to adopt the proposals of my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary--particularly in the sphere of rape, to stop those who rape repeatedly from raping again until such time as they are fit to be released into society?
The Solicitor-General: My hon. and learned Friend is quite right. We have referred a number of rape cases in which the defendant has raped once before, has been given a substantial term of imprisonment, has been released and, before long, has committed a further rape. In some such cases, the defendant has been punished by a further determinate sentence. It would be quite unrealistic to view such a defendant as being safe to be released into the community on a particular day but, under current sentencing provisions, there is nothing that can be done about it. Surely something should be done to put that matter right.
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