| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover): Has it not crossed the mind of Ministers of this pathetic Government that, during the 23 years since we became a member of the Common Market, the only way to resolve matters has been to go in there and let the other Ministers know that you mean business? For a few fleeting moments last week, somebody in the Tory Government was going to bang a big drum, but then they backed off. It was the only time that the Government looked as if they were going to do something positive.
It is high time that the Government understood that they are involved in a political issue--it is not technical or academic. When they realise that, they will be doing something for the farmers and all the others who have got the sack in Britain. It is high time that there was a cull--a cull of the Cabinet and the Government. Let us have a general election and cull the lot of them.
Mr. Hogg:
One should not always be kind to the hon. Gentleman, but there is a grain of truth in what he said--perhaps more than a grain of truth--to the extent that he has emphasised the grave consequences of the ban for the industry, for people across the rural community and in other parts of the economy. That is true.
Because this is so serious, we cannot indulge ourselves in the sort of idle rant that we have just heard from the hon. Gentleman. We must ask ourselves what policies are most likely to lead to an early lifting of the ban. I have advocated, do advocate and have pursued the policies of persuasion and negotiation, because I think that those are most likely to achieve the essential end.
Mr. Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield):
Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that those of us who represent beef and dairy constituencies are running out of patience? We will not accept an increased cull unless it is justified by scientific advice. Will he understand that decisions have to be reached within hours, not weeks? Will he give me an assurance that the Chelford market and agriculture centre in my constituency will be nominated as one of the collection points? He knows that the European Community is out to destroy our sale and distribution system, and the only way to retain it is to ensure that all the cattle markets share in whatever funds are going.
Mr. Hogg:
I understand that most right hon. and hon. Members and the agricultural community are losing patience. I understand my hon. Friend's reservations about the concept of a selective cull, and we have tried to address those reservations in our consultations. I am conscious that we could not pursue a selective cull policy unless it was a policy that the House was ready to acquiesce in. That is the most important reassurance that I can give my hon. Friend.
Mr. Calum Macdonald (Western Isles):
Why are the Government still completely isolated in Europe?
Mr. Hogg:
That is not the correct analysis. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that there is enormous resistance to lifting the ban--that is true. However, when one listens to the arguments advanced across the Council table or among the vets, one sees that that resistance is not justified in scientific terms, and rarely in any other terms of considered argument. It is articulated in terms of consumer concern. I believe that a real fear is stemming from the market reactions in countries in Europe, and that that has caused them to fix on this matter as a way of restoring market confidence in their own countries. That is not a proper approach, and it is not one that I would commend to the House.
Sir Patrick Cormack (South Staffordshire):
Will my right hon. and learned Friend say very firmly to our European colleagues that there is nothing more destructive of public confidence--about which they are protesting so much--than their constant refusal to accept scientific advice?
Mr. Hogg:
My hon. Friend is wholly right, and I have said this to my colleagues in the Council many times--sometimes in even more robust language than that of my hon. Friend.
Mrs. Ray Michie (Argyll and Bute):
In relation to the slaughter scheme, I press the Minister, in particular, on collection centres and designated abattoirs. The farmers in my constituency do not know what is happening. We need to know whether there will be local provision on some of the islands and Kintyre. I am glad that the Secretary of State for Scotland is in the Chamber.
If there is no local provision, and if there is restriction on these centres, will not animals be ferried and trucked for many hundreds of miles to a collection centre and then back again? That will result in a loss of weight and a loss of value in the animal. The farmers in my constituency are deeply frustrated. A logjam is building up, and there are cash flow problems. There is an increasing feeling of hopelessness, because farmers do not know what will happen.
Mr. Hogg:
As the hon. Lady can see, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland is sitting on the Front Bench, and he has heard what she has said about information. He is sending information to the Scottish farming community. I know that he has paid careful attention to what the hon. Lady has said. The farming community and the Government are worried about a logjam in the early stages of the 30-month-plus cull. We are seeing whether there are any ways in which we can free up that logjam.
Sir Peter Emery (Honiton):
Does my right hon. and learned Friend accept that most people believe that he is doing all that is possible to fight for the agricultural industry? None the less, we know that the Opposition are political and commercial, to the benefit of the French, German and Dutch farmers.
Irrespective of that, does my right hon. and learned Friend understand that there is great concern in the south-west? Farmers do not know where they are--they do not know what is happening and what they should do. Will he try to ensure that communication between his Department and not the NFU but farmers individually, is considered and greatly improved? Farmers are desperate to know how to act and what to do.
Mr. Hogg:
My right hon. Friend has a very important point when he suggests that the opposition to our position is not based on science; I agree with that view. He is also right when he emphasises the importance of communicating the schemes and the details to the farming community. We did place material in the farming press last week. We have given much material and information to the NFU--I take my right hon. Friend's strictures--and he may have heard that I shall be sending a note to all farmers very shortly.
Mr. William Ross (East Londonderry):
Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman understand that we welcome the fact that payment on a dead weight basis as well as a live weight basis will now be the norm? Will he confirm that the sum of 109p per kilo is on a live weight basis?
Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman recall that he commended the Northern Ireland system of tracing and identifying cattle? Given that this subject, as he said today, is a matter of consumer concern and consumer perception, would it not be wise to use the traceability methods that exist in Northern Ireland, and in some other parts of the United Kingdom, as a lever to open the European export door? Every beast exported from anywhere in the United Kingdom is one headache fewer for him and for the Treasury.
Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman also consider, in the light of the interest displayed in his statement today, that we are overdue for another full debate on that subject?
Mr. Hogg:
A full debate is a matter for the usual channels. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his support for both a live weight and dead weight valuation for compensation.
On identification, the hon. Gentleman is right to say that the Northern Ireland arrangements are better than those in any other part of the United Kingdom; that is wholly correct. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we are considering the concept of an exemption from the 30-months scheme. It is possible that that might also be used as a justification for a partial lifting of the ban in respect of those herds that are so defined. We are working energetically on that. That would, I think, be of enormous value to the Province.
Mr. Nicholas Budgen (Wolverhampton, South-West):
Will my right hon. and learned Friend confirm that, if he were to introduce a scheme of compulsory killing of healthy cattle to reassure European consumers, he would need fresh primary legislation in this Parliament? Does he agree that, judging by the views of the House this afternoon, it would be very unlikely that such a Bill would pass the House?
Mr. Hogg:
Clearly, any scheme that was brought forward would have to have proper statutory authority.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |