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Mr. Wallace: I support the Minister's comments. Amendments Nos. 25 and 26 would weaken an otherwise reasonable test, if I may use that word. At the end of the day, it must be for a sheriff or a jury to decide whether any steps taken were reasonable.
Mr. McFall: I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendments made: No. 7, in page 2, line 31, leave out 'and'.
No. 8, in page 2, line 34, at end insert 'and
No. 15, in page 2, line 38, at end insert--
No. 11, in page 2, line 42, after '18A(1)', insert 'or 18B(4)'.
No. 12, in page 2, line 46, after '18A(1)', insert 'or 18B(4)'.--[Lord James Douglas-Hamilton.]
Order for Third Reading read.
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton:
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
I shall speak briefly and mention only one or two key points. The Special Standing Committee heard evidence from interested parties at sessions in Stirling, Ayr and Inverness. The hearings were a considerable success and made the future progress of the Bill more satisfactory.
The parties included such organisations as the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, Sheriff Neil Gow, the Law Society of Scotland, medical, health and education experts and the owners of venues for raves.
We listened to the concerns expressed in Special Standing Committee and decided to give licensing boards a free-standing power with a requirement to apply conditions where appropriate. Other changes followed the
Special Standing Committee evidence, including a significant amendment enabling the Secretary of State to ensure consistency in practice throughout the country.
Mr. Galbraith:
In continuation of the spirit of which the Minister spoke--
Dr. Godman:
My hon. Friend will be brief.
Mr. Galbraith:
As my hon. Friend always says, I shall be brief. However, my hon. Friend normally follows that phrase with a 45-minute speech. I shall not do that.
Let me once again commend the procedure in the Special Standing Committee. I served on the Special Standing Committee considering the Children Bill, as did the Minister, and its scrutiny greatly helped that measure. This Bill was almost rewritten as a result of the same procedure and that is to be commended.
I also commend the speed with which the Bill has been introduced to deal with an identified problem. In many ways, legislation reflects the failure of society, as we have not been able to do the right thing without it. However, when it is necessary, we should introduce it quickly and make it short. The Bill is a model of that process.
Let me emphasise a point that I tried to make time and again on Second Reading. The Bill is not a drug prevention measure. On Second Reading, the Minister attempted to link it with drug prevention schemes in Scotland. It is a health and safety Bill involving raves. It is not a drug prevention Bill and the Minister demeans it if he persists with that idea.
Finally, I should like to address the criticism that we cannot have chill-out areas and various other facilities as that assumes that we are in favour of people taking drugs. As my hon. Friend the Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley (Mr. Foulkes) said, the fact that we have fire extinguishers in halls does not mean that we are in favour of fire and the fact that our hospitals have facilities for dealing with people who have been stabbed does not mean that we are in favour of people being stabbed.
Mr. Menzies Campbell:
In the calm, rational and consensual atmosphere in which we have discussed the Bill this evening, it is easy to forget the tragic events that prompted it. Those tragic events caused great suffering to families, raised great apprehension in the minds of many people and created considerable public concern. The Bill would meet the difficulties that gave rise to that public concern.
"prescribed conditions" means the conditions prescribed by the Secretary of State under subsection (3A) above.'.
'Conditions for existing licences
18B.--(1) This section applies to premises in respect of which a licence has been granted, whether before or after the coming into force of this section, under section 17 of this Act where no conditions have been attached to the licence in pursuance of section 18A of this Act.
(2) Where it appears to a licensing board that an event to which section 18A of this Act applies may be held on premises to which this section applies, the board shall convene a meeting for the purpose of attaching to the licence the conditions specified in subsection (1) of that section.
(3) The clerk to the licensing board shall, not later than 21 days before the date of the meeting to be held under subsection (2) above, serve on the holder of the licence and send to the chief constable a notice of--
(a) the meeting;
(b) where the Secretary of State has prescribed the terms of any prescribed conditions, such terms;
(c) in the case of any other prescribed conditions, the terms proposed by the board; and
(d) where the board proposes to attach any other conditions to the licence, the terms of such conditions.
(4) At the meeting held under subsection (2) above, unless the holder of the licence satisfies the board that no event to which section 18A of this Act applies will be held on the premises, the board shall attach to the licence the prescribed conditions and such other conditions as it considers necessary in the terms determined in accordance with subsection (5) below.
(5) In determining--
(a) whether the board is satisfied as mentioned in subsection (4) above; or
(b) what conditions (other than prescribed conditions) to attach to a licence or the terms (other than such terms as are prescribed) of such conditions,
the board shall have regard to any observations submitted by the chief constable and any other person or body mentioned in section 16(1) of this Act.
(6) Subsections (2) to (4) of section 16 of this Act shall apply in relation to any observations made under subsection (5) above as they apply in relation to any objection made under that section; and for the purposes of such application any reference in the said subsections (2) to (4)--
(a) to an application shall be construed as a reference to conditions proposed to be attached to the licence;
(b) to the applicant shall be construed as a reference to the holder of the licence;
(c) to an objection shall be construed as a reference to an observation;
(d) to the proper address of the applicant shall be construed as a reference to the address at which notice is served on the holder of the licence under subsection (3) above,
and cognate expressions shall be construed accordingly.
(7) The terms of conditions to be attached to the licence in pursuance of subsection (4) above are--
(a) in the case of the prescribed conditions--
(i) where the terms of any condition have been prescribed, such terms;
(ii) where the description of any condition has been prescribed, such terms as the board considers appropriate;
(b) in the case of any other condition notified under subsection (3)(d) above, such terms as the board consider appropriate; and
(c) in the case of any condition not so notified, such terms as are agreed with the holder of the licence.
(8) Subsections (4) to (9) of section 18A of this Act shall apply to conditions attached to a licence under subsection (4) above as they apply to conditions attached to a licence under section 18A(1) of this Act.
(9) The clerk to the licensing board shall forthwith intimate to the holder of the licence--
(a) where the board is satisfied that no event to which section 18A of this Act will be held on the premises, that fact; and
(b) where the board attaches conditions to the licence, such conditions by sending to the holder of the licence a copy of the licence with the conditions attached.
(10) In this section "prescribed conditions" has the same meaning as in section 18A of this Act.'.
8.33 pm
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