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Mr. John Greenway (Ryedale): May I report to my hon. Friend that beef farmers in north Yorkshire are finding it extremely difficult to get abattoirs to take cattle? They recognise, however, that my hon. Friend is aware of the urgency of the situation and they welcome his decision to get all parts of the industry together to provide a daily solution to the problem.
Does my hon. Friend agree that it sits ill on Opposition parties to criticise the 30-month slaughter scheme when they called for it, as did farmers, in the first place? Everyone knew that it would be complicated and that it will work only when everyone in the industry works together for the greater good of our beef industry.
Mr. Baldry:
My hon. Friend is right. The scheme was introduced with the support of all Conservative Members after the fervent request of retailers, producers and everyone involved in the food chain. They believed that it would prove to be a substantial measure in helping to restore confidence in United Kingdom beef. Everyone must work together to ensure its success.
My hon. Friend takes a close interest in the issue and he will know only too well that one of the difficulties is that this country has a finite amount of rendering capacity, but renderers must be prepared to work with a number of abattoirs. They cannot just believe that they can work with a favoured abattoir or a couple of favoured abattoirs. That would cause considerable resentment in different parts of the country.
I have sought to ensure that the abattoirs involved in the scheme represent a wide geographical cross-section, ensuring that, if need be, farmers can take their livestock to abattoirs in a convenient location. Co-operation is needed between farmers and livestock marts on the one hand and renderers and abattoirs on the other. No Minister of any Government at any time can wet-nurse every slaughterhouse, renderer and livestock mart in the country. They must co-operate and work together to make the scheme a success.
Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow):
On the issue of representations by the Highland Cattle Society, is there any special dispensation because highland cattle take longer than 30 months to mature? When the Minister meets the renderers tomorrow, will he ask them about the temperatures of the heating of food in relation to prions, which may be the root cause of the whole problem?
Mr. Baldry:
On the hon. Gentleman's first point, he may well be aware that, last Friday, we issued a consultation paper on exemption schemes for breeds of cattle--such as highland and Dexter cattle--that tend to mature after 30 months. I will ensure that a copy is sent direct to the hon. Gentleman.
On the rest of the process, of course we shall ensure that rendering and every other process complies with the objectives of best science. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman and I would agree that it is imperative that we, and everyone in Europe, apply best science to what we
do, because, if we do not work and take our decisions on the basis of best science, we might as well return to the Copernican theory of the universe.
Mr. Patrick Nicholls (Teignbridge):
I compliment my hon. Friend on the way in which he communicated the details of the scheme today, but does he agree that those animals are being slaughtered--and therefore disposed of--not for any scientific reason, but apparently to restore confidence among the Europeans? Does he therefore agree that any extended scheme that might be introduced to dispose of more animals in the same way could be introduced only on the basis that the ban would be lifted? Such schemes cannot be advanced without a copper-bottomed guarantee to lift the ban that has been wrongly imposed on our products.
Mr. Baldry:
My hon. Friend always makes some very good points. In fairness, this scheme was instituted because retailers, the National Farmers Union and everyone in the food chain joined together and made representations to us and expressed the view that implementing the scheme would help restore confidence in the domestic market in British beef and consequently help restore confidence in UK beef elsewhere in the world.
My right hon. and learned Friend the Minister has told the House several times that there is no suggestion of proposing any further selective cull unless it is based on best science and commands the support of the House. As I believe became clear at the last meeting of the Council of Ministers, the European Commission and European Community vets recognise and acknowledge that the scheme that my right hon. and learned Friend proposed is the best that can be devised--in other words, no one yet has been able to suggest a better scheme for a selective cull, although of course we are always prepared to listen to any further suggestions and comments that might be made.
Mrs. Gwyneth Dunwoody (Crewe and Nantwich):
Will the Minister be flexible in his attitude towards the various abattoirs? There is already controversy in south Cheshire about some of the choices. Is he aware that, far from the information system working efficiently, it took me nearly 24 hours on Thursday and Friday to obtain accurate information about the working of the scheme? Will he please ensure that detailed information is easily available to the people affected?
Mr. Baldry:
I have sought to ensure that there is a proper coverage of abattoirs throughout the country; there is certainly adequate slaughterhouse capacity in Cheshire. If too many abattoirs are involved in the scheme, there is a danger that we may start to involve abattoirs that have been mothballed or have not had money invested in them to bring them up to EC standards, and we also increase the difficulties of marrying up abattoirs and renderers.
If, as the scheme develops, it appears that we can take on more slaughtering capacity, I am willing to consider doing so, but I am advised by the vets and many others that the current spread of abattoirs is adequate.
On the hon. Lady requiring information, I very much hope that if the hon. Lady or any other hon. Member has a problem or query in relation to the scheme, they will
telephone my private office; that is what private offices are for. Otherwise I very much hope that farmers and producers will telephone the intervention board to receive assistance.
I have written to all farmers setting out the initial details of the scheme, and I am closely monitoring calls to the intervention board. If the same queries are made time and again, I shall send further information to farmers in order to deal with those persistent queries. If hon. Members have a problem or a difficult constituency case, I hope that they will contact my office immediately,
Mr. Andrew Rowe (Mid-Kent):
Is my hon. Friend aware that in Maidstone we have probably the most modern, and certainly one of the most accessible, livestock markets in the country? It is outraged that it has been left out of the scheme so far. Can my hon. Friend offer any hope that, as the scheme develops, Maidstone will become a collecting point?
Mr. Baldry:
The criteria for including livestock marts was that last year they dealt with either 2,000 cull cows or 2,000 clean beef cows--on average, that is 40 cows per week. If a market does not deal with at least 40 cows per week, one must question whether it is a serious player. I have said that I will re-examine the coverage of both abattoirs and livestock marts. However, I would need to be persuaded to increase the number of livestock marts, given the existing extensive coverage of collection centres.
Mr. Ieuan Wyn Jones (Ynys Mon):
The Minister will be aware that there is concern, particularly in areas of large geographical spread such as north and mid-Wales, that his strict criteria for collection points might not always be met. It might be in the interests of the industry if the Minister were to look at specific problems in certain areas.
Abattoirs in north-west and west Wales have difficulty obtaining any support from the rendering industry. The Minister has said that he will talk to the industry immediately in the hope of reaching an agreement. If it does not agree and if no rendering facilities are available, does the Minister accept that it is purely academic to appoint abattoirs in the first place?
Mr. Baldry:
Ten abattoirs in Wales are approved under the scheme and they are spread from the north to the south of the Principality. There is a fair coverage of abattoirs in Wales. It is essential that the renderers co-operate with the abattoirs in order to carry out the maximum amount of rendering. Clearly, the process is dependent upon the rendering. If the renderers do not co-operate, they may be assured that I shall be on their backs until they do. Their co-operation is essential. It is their industry as much as anyone else's, and they must have an interest in restoring long-term confidence in United Kingdom beef.
I hope that the renderers will start to co-operate fully with slaughterhouses up and down the country in order to maximise the scheme's throughput as speedily as possible. That is already occurring in Scotland and Northern Ireland. I hope that the renderers and other sectoral interests south of the border and in Wales will see that and follow their example.
Mr. David Harris (St. Ives):
I thank my hon. Friend for responding quickly to the representations made by
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