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Mrs. Browning: I was very interested to hear what the hon. Gentleman and his friends said in Brussels. The selective slaughter policy is primarily a selective scheme to take out those cohorts of animals that have been fed infected feed at the same time on the same farm as animals that have suffered from BSE. The hon. Gentleman denigrated that policy and dismissed it, and he criticised the Government when that proposal was first presented to Brussels, scathingly calling it a "non-paper".
I have to tell the hon. Gentleman that any more slaughter of any kind must pass the test of being approved by the industry in this country and by the Members of the House before it is presented to Brussels. That is the scheme that is on the table in Brussels. At the moment, our European partners have said no; they want more herds and animals killed. If the hon. Gentleman is supporting that, he had better say how many more animals he wants killed.
Mr. Kirkwood:
rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put.
Question, That the Question be now put, put and agreed to.
Question put accordingly, That the original words stand part of the Question:--
The House divided: Ayes 62, Noes 124.
Tellers for the Ayes:
Tellers for the Noes:
Question accordingly negatived.
Question, That the proposed words be there added, put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 30 (Questions on amendments), and agreed to.
Madam Speaker forthwith declared the main Question, as amended, to be agreed to.
Resolved,
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 22,
Question agreed to.
Ordered,
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.--[Mr. Streeter.]
Mr. Greville Janner (Leicester, West):
I am grateful for the opportunity to raise in the House the horrendous problem of security in our schools. I have campaigned for many years and begged the Government to make available adequate resources for schools to provide security measures. They need these to counter the attacks made upon them, often daily, and to provide not only replacements for the goods and buildings that are destroyed but, more important, adequate security measures that do not have to be funded from schools' inadequate budgets.
There are 43 schools in my constituency and in the past financial year no fewer than 41 of them have been attacked by vandals, arsonists and burglars--many of them on several occasions. The cost of putting right the damage caused is estimated at more than £315,000.
In Leicestershire, the figures for arson have multiplied by six since the Government came to power. In 1979, there were about a dozen arson attacks on public buildings, including schools. In the past year, there were 72 such attacks. Schools and other public buildings are suffering from vandalism, burglary and other crime. Schools are forced to spend on security from budgets that should be used for teaching, for books and for other equipment because no adequate moneys are available to cover the cost of installing the preventive measures needed.
Despite the difficulty of obtaining figures, research undertaken for me by Pallavi Sharma and Tom Playfoot shows that secondary schools in my constituency fall into two categories. Schools in the first category have no private insurance and must pay 70 per cent. of the cost of repairs and replacements. Primary and special schools must pay 55 per cent. The second category is schools that participate in a private insurance scheme. They must pay 20 per cent. of the premium, with an excess of 70 per cent. for secondary schools and55 per cent. for primary and special schools. They should have to pay nothing. There is no reason why schools should be forced to meet from their budgets the costs resulting from vandalism, burglary and arson.
Many schools in the most disadvantaged and vulnerable areas cannot even obtain insurance because the premiums are too high. They are left totally uninsured.
Schools that want to install closed circuit television, security fencing, alarm systems and locks must, in most cases, meet the whole cost themselves, or at least a substantial part of it. I ask the Government to pay the full amount from whatever budget may be available. If no budget is available, I ask the Government to make such funding a priority.
We are not talking primarily of awful tragedies such as the shootings in Dunblane--although that incident has thrown the whole problem into stark relief. We are talking about the everyday miseries of ordinary schools in my constituency and throughout the country. I have tried to obtain details of the cost, without success. The Department for Education and Employment says that
such figures are not available. I give notice to the Minister that I shall be tabling a series of written questions to force the figures out of the Government. There is no reason why all local education authorities should not produce such figures, in the same way that Leicestershire has done for me.
Schools must compete with public buildings for a limited budget. Only four schools in my constituency received council moneys for security, and each school had to pay half from their own budget. In the past two years, Leicestershire education committee--starved of funds by Government measures--has received no money for school security. That is wrong. Schools should have proper security. Of course it is sad that such measures are necessary. We would all much prefer them not to be necessary. The reality is that with the cracking of the social system, the growth of deprivation and the causes of crime left unattended, schools must take security measures.
I certainly hope, after Dunblane, that the time will come when the Government ban handguns in people's homes, but that will not be enough. The smashing of schools and equipment, the stealing of equipment and the burning of schools cannot be dealt with by banning guns.
I offer the House a few examples. Barleycroft county primary school, an excellent school in my constituency, has a first-class head teacher, Philip Goulding, who at the age of 43 was attacked by five or six youths at the end of last year after he had caught one of them who had stolen a mobile phone from a car. He needed16 stitches, he had a broken nose, cuts above both eyes, a trapped nerve and head and neck injuries. Over the past four years his school has had to spend £20,000 of its education budget on security measures. That is disgraceful; it should not be permitted.
There is an excellent special school with a brilliant head teacher, Rufus Gordon, whom I have known for many years. He wrote to the Secretary of State for Education and Employment on 29 January as follows:
That in itself is shocking enough.
which the school has not got.
I hope that the Minister, too, is shocked by this. I hope that she understands the outrage among teachers in my constituency and will now at last provide the money to cover these costs.
I have a soft spot for special schools such as the Western Park school and the Emily Forte school, which was set ablaze a short time ago. But I hope that the money for security will be forthcoming for all the schools in my constituency, not just these two.
With all these miseries besetting our schools, what do the Government intend to do? I pay tribute to the Secretary of State who was kind enough to come to my constituency at my invitation and meet teachers and head teachers, but nothing has happened since. The nearest to anything happening has been the preparation of a report which, by the sort of amazing coincidence for which this House is renowned, is due to appear tomorrow. The Secretary of State has been kind enough to provide me with a copy of it, but I cannot refer to it in this debate. I hope, Madam Speaker, to raise the matter as a point of order, because it is wrong, when there is a forthcoming Adjournment debate on a particular subject, to issue a written answer to a parliamentary question the next day so that there is no chance to debate it.
I hope that the report will be favourable to my views and that it will accept what is patently obvious to everyone but the Government: that schools, teachers and pupils are suffering because there are no adequate security arrangements that schools can make without cutting into their budgets.
It is not enough simply to issue a report. As Chairman of a Select Committee I have seen many reports issued, pigeonholed, commented on and then die the death. That will not do in this case. If it turns out that the report agrees with me, I hope that the Minister will undertake tonight immediately to implement measures to end this awful situation.
AYES
Ainger, Nick
Alton, David
Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy
Barnes, Harry
Beith, Rt Hon A J
Brown, N (N'c'tle upon Tyne E)
Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon)
Callaghan, Jim
Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE)
Carlile, Alexander (Montgomery)
Chidgey, David
Clark, Dr David (South Shields)
Coffey, Ann
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Rt Hon Dr John
Dafis, Cynog
Davies, Chris (L'Boro & S'worth)
Dewar, Donald
Dixon, Don
Dobson, Frank
Eastham, Ken
Etherington, Bill
Evans, John (St Helens N)
Ewing, Mrs Margaret
Foster, Rt Hon Derek
Godman, Dr Norman A
Golding, Mrs Llin
Harvey, Nick
Hill, Keith (Streatham)
Hoon, Geoffrey
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Hughes, Simon (Southwark)
Janner, Greville
Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side)
Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O)
Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham)
Keen, Alan
Kilfoyle, Peter
Llwyd, Elfyn
Lynne, Ms Liz
Maclennan, Robert
Maddock, Diana
Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute)
Moonie, Dr Lewis
Morley, Elliot
Mudie, George
Nicholson, Emma (Devon West)
Pike, Peter L
Raynsford, Nick
Rendel, David
Salmond, Alex
Skinner, Dennis
Spearing, Nigel
Steel, Rt Hon Sir David
Strang, Dr. Gavin
Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury)
Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Tipping, Paddy
Tyler, Paul
Wallace, James
Welsh, Andrew
Wigley, Dafydd
Mr. Archy Kirkwood and
Mr. Don Foster.
NOES
Alexander, Richard
Amess, David
Ancram, Rt Hon Michael
Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham)
Ashby, David
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)
Baker, Nicholas (North Dorset)
Baldry, Tony
Bates, Michael
Biffen, Rt Hon John
Bonsor, Sir Nicholas
Boswell, Tim
Bottomley, Peter (Eltham)
Bowis, John
Brandreth, Gyles
Brazier, Julian
Bright, Sir Graham
Brooke, Rt Hon Peter
Browning, Mrs Angela
Budgen, Nicholas
Burns, Simon
Burt, Alistair
Butcher, John
Butler, Peter
Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Lincoln)
Carrington, Matthew
Carttiss, Michael
Chapman, Sir Sydney
Churchill, Mr
Clappison, James
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coombs, Simon (Swindon)
Couchman, James
Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire)
Devlin, Tim
Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James
Dover, Den
Elletson, Harold
Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield)
Evans, Jonathan (Brecon)
Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley)
Evennett, David
Fabricant, Michael
Fenner, Dame Peggy
Fishburn, Dudley
Forman, Nigel
Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring)
Fox, Rt Hon Sir Marcus (Shipley)
French, Douglas
Gallie, Phil
Gillan, Cheryl
Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles
Gorman, Mrs Teresa
Gorst, Sir John
Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)
Greenway, John (Ryedale)
Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N)
Harris, David
Hawkins, Nick
Heald, Oliver
Hendry, Charles
Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W)
Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W)
Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine
King, Rt Hon Tom
Kirkhope, Timothy
Knapman, Roger
Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash)
Knight, Rt Hon Greg (Derby N)
Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'st'n)
Lang, Rt Hon Ian
Lawrence, Sir Ivan
Legg, Barry
Lidington, David
Luff, Peter
Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas
MacKay, Andrew
Maitland, Lady Olga
Malone, Gerald
Marland, Paul
Martin, David (Portsmouth S)
Merchant, Piers
Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling)
Nelson, Anthony
Neubert, Sir Michael
Nicholls, Patrick
Oppenheim, Phillip
Ottaway, Richard
Paice, James
Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey
Pickles, Eric
Porter, David (Waveney)
Rathbone, Tim
Redwood, Rt Hon John
Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn
Robinson, Mark (Somerton)
Rowe, Andrew (Mid Kent)
Shaw, David (Dover)
Skeet, Sir Trevor
Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield)
Spencer, Sir Derek
Spink, Dr Robert
Stephen, Michael
Stern, Michael
Streeter, Gary
Sweeney, Walter
Temple-Morris, Peter
Thomason, Roy
Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N)
Thornton, Sir Malcolm
Townsend, Cyril D (Bexl'yh'th)
Tredinnick, David
Twinn, Dr Ian
Viggers, Peter
Walden, George
Walker, Bill (N Tayside)
Waller, Gary
Wells, Bowen
Whitney, Ray
Whittingdale, John
Widdecombe, Ann
Wilkinson, John
Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'f'ld)
Wolfson, Mark
Mr. Timothy Wood and
Mr. Patrick McLoughlin.
That this House welcomes the Government's commitment to restoring consumer confidence in the UK beef industry by introducing a slaughter scheme for cattle over the age of 30 months; notes the progress made in the 30-month scheme; recognises the dependence of the scheme on co-operation between farmers, auctioneers, slaughterers and renderers and welcomes the steps taken to foster such co-operation to ensure that the maximum slaughter rates are achieved.
That this House, at its rising on Wednesday 22nd May, do adjourn till Tuesday 4th June.--[Mr. Streeter.]
That Mr. Peter Butler be discharged from the Home Affairs Committee and Mr. Warren Hawksley be added to the Committee.--[Mr. MacKay.]
10.12 pm
"In the past three years I have lost my Science Teacher and was not allowed to replace her due to financial restrictions."
"I have made my Deputy redundant, my Senior Mistress and Junior Teacher redundant, my Home Economics Teacher redundant, and my Languages and Support Teacher redundant. I have made Nursery Nurses redundant and Ancillary. I depend on hourly-paid teachers to stay afloat--that is, to cover the National Curriculum . . . There is no one else I can make redundant . . . There is no way we can maintain the payments on the closed circuit television--I have had to stop, in any case, paying our Premises Officer to come in on Saturday and Sunday to replace the video tape in the CCTV, as that was costing me £30 each weekend",
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