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The Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Douglas Hogg): Will the hon. Lady make it clear what her policy is? Is she saying that anyone, anywhere in the UK, who can establish loss should be compensated? If the answer is yes, what does she quantify the cost as being?
Mrs. Liddell: I am grateful to the Minister because I was coming directly to that point. Some three weeks ago, I asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to institute an inquiry into the number of people in downstream industries who had been affected as a consequence of the crisis. In terms not only of agriculture, but of the overall development of the UK and the Scottish economy, it is important to have that information. The compensation scheme that I have referred to--the Minister may not have heard me as he was talking to the Minister of State--relates to the European schemes that the TUC, the Transport and General Workers Union and the Scottish TUC raised yesterday with the Minister for Rural Affairs.
Those elements of compensation could be made available. The European Union has already made it clear that it would listen sympathetically to any claim. I want to ensure that that is progressed as quickly as possible, but putting one's head under the pillow and assuming that nothing can be done and nothing is happening is the wrong way in which to proceed. It is not the way in which to build public confidence and to restore equanimity and equilibrium to a seriously troubled industry.
Mr. Tom King (Bridgwater):
Will the hon. Lady give way?
Mrs. Liddell:
May I make some progress? I will give way to the right hon. Gentleman later.
Many people out there are frustrated by the fact that this crisis is almost two months old and the Government still have a tendency to behave as if it has only just happened. I listened with interest to what the Minister of State said about the use of the Ministry of Defence and the advice from the logistics experts. Why is that advice being sought only now? We have known for some two months that logistical problems of some considerable magnitude would be experienced as a consequence of the decisions that have had to be taken. Why are the
Government repeatedly sitting on their hands? The longer they do that, the longer the crisis dominates those innocent people who are being dramatically affected.
Mr. King:
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way because it is an important point. Obviously, some people are suffering substantial losses. The Minister has made clear what the Government are trying to do for those directly involved, but the problem spreads widely and it will be difficult. I had not thought of laundries until she mentioned them as one illustration. She speaks for the Opposition on this and, obviously, she has a responsibility. She should make it clear whether she is suggesting that everyone who has suffered loss, in any respect, could look--if there were a change of Government--to compensation, because the other worry that some of us have is that this may last quite a time. These problems will continue. It is important that the House and the country know whether she is proposing compensation for anyone who has suffered loss, in any way, in relation to this serious position.
Mrs. Liddell:
The right hon. Gentleman was not listening when I replied to the Minister of Agriculture. I have asked for an inquiry into the scale of the problem because, until that is done, there are no circumstances in which we can assess the true impact, both to the agriculture industry and to the overall economy, of the problem. Once we know that, we will know ways in which it can be dealt with. Yesterday's meetings in the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, however, took place to discuss compensation schemes that may be available from the European Union. It would be foolish indeed if we did not prosecute every possible avenue to find out what assistance can be made available to people affected.
I should like to return to the specific case relating to head boners. The hon. Member for Gosport (Mr. Viggers) made a powerful speech yesterday, and I pay tribute to the determination with which he has prosecuted the case of head boners in his constituency. To ensure that I was adequately briefed for this debate and that the information that I had from the Scottish end of the industry was up to date, yesterday I telephoned Pinnacle Meats in the hon. Gentleman's constituency. The company also paid the hon. Gentleman a considerable tribute.
I refer the House to the specific case of T and T Meats Ltd. in Aberdeen. The owner-manager of that company is Mr. John Troupe. At the close of business on 29 March, he received a fax from the Scottish Office saying, "Cease trading immediately." He had no alternative, and no fallback. The company was very small and employed only six people. At the moment he received the fax, his livelihood and that of his workers was destroyed. I know that, with her background in small business, the Parliamentary Secretary will realise that one of the consequences of taking risks in small business is personal guarantee. As a consequence, Mr. Troupe has lost not only his business but his home, his pension and his future.
Mr. Troupe contacted the Scottish Office to ask for assistance and advice. Regrettably, he was told that assistance would be given only to companies that would continue to be part of the supply chain, and that therefore nothing could be done to help him. Indeed, Lord Lindsay
was quite blunt in his response to Mr. Troupe. He said that it was not Government policy at any point to try to assist companies that had been affected as his company had.
Following a very distressing conversation withMr. Troupe, I received a fax from a company further down the road called Leslie's Meat Products. Mr. Leslie said:
The difficulties that such people face must not be mocked. They must be taken into account because they are replicated time and again. Incidentally, it is regrettable that T and T Meats Ltd. is in the constituency of a Scottish Office Minister--the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, the hon. Member for Aberdeen, South(Mr. Robertson). Such problems will be confronted time and again and the Government cannot pretend that they are not occurring. Free-market ideology has no place in trying to resolve such a crisis. There is no point in trying to follow the dictates of the market in a matter of such enormity.
I recognise that many complex issues have been raised as a result of the BSE crisis. I listened with great interest to what the Minister said about the intervention arrangements. I recognise that there is to be an increase to 9,000 tonnes, but it is still not adequate for the scale of the problem.
I urge the Minister seriously to take into account the problems of red tape. I understand that he is aware of the Orkney farmer who sent his beasts to the south of England on the understanding that they had been accepted for intervention, only to have them sent back at a cost of £9,000, which the farmer must pay out of his own pocket. The intervention scheme was not set up to operate in a crisis, but the Government must put a strong case for the reduction of red tape as quickly as possible, and do so in a spirit of concert and co-operation.
Occasionally, the Government give the impression that there is time to play with. Considering that the Government are so dominated by those who have an interest in cricket, they may find that acceptable, but people outside do not have the patience to wait until events come round full circle. We watched with great interest developments in the discussions in Europe over the past 24 hours. It is manifestly unfair of Conservative Members to make negotiating in Europe more difficult for the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food with their puerile attempts to use the opportunity to dish Europe for purely partisan motives.
In a most bizarre intervention, the Secretary of State for Scotland got himself into an awful state about the flying of the European flag on Europe day. I would call that juvenile if it were not an insult to the many intelligent juveniles I know. Ministers are not only being sent naked into the conference chamber, but their feet are being taken from under them before they get in the door. We need intelligent and rational responses that convince the European Union that we are serious in our determination
to address the issues that have arisen. Nonsense about retaliation and trade wars completely undermines attempts to have rational discussion on lifting the ban.
I was disturbed to read in The Independent this morning the suggestion that the Ministry's proposals for a 42,000-head selective slaughter have not yet been put in detail to Europe. Will the Minister give us a true indication of the situation? It is disturbing to read in a newspaper article a suggestion that the Government have not gone to the lengths of ensuring that such proposals have been put.
Mrs. Liddell:
I hope that the Minister is going to clear that up now.
Mr. Hogg:
There is of course a document setting out the concept of selective cull which was placed in the House of Commons Library some little time ago. That self-same document went in a dossier to every Agriculture Minister at the last Agriculture Council meeting.
"As from Monday 1 April 1996, Leslies Meat Products ceased trading as a result of new legislation".
He had been in the meat trade for 40 years and in business for 33 years. In the past year, his company had spent £500,000 to ensure that it could meet the regulations set down. He says that he has lost his business through no fault of his own; it went overnight.
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