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Mr. Baldry: We have all been concerned about specialist meat producers who know that, under the present regime, they will not be paid before their cattle are slaughtered. They are obviously anxious that their cattle should be slaughtered as speedily as possible. Clearly, we want to help them. In the exceptional circumstances, we have concluded that it is appropriate to make an advance payment to producers in respect of animals currently on farm.
My hon. Friend and others have made a good point. I and my colleagues are urgently studying how an advance payment might best be made. We are exploring ways in which a simple, straightforward, flat-rate payment per head can be made. I want arrangements that will get money to farmers as quickly as possible. It is an exceptional, one-off arrangement, which will be designed to help those with a backlog so that they know that they will receive money. I hope that hon. Members will welcome that move and that producers will see it as a positive attempt to ease the pressures that they are under.
Mr. Bruce:
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that statement as early in the debate as he possibly could, so that we know what is happening. My farmers back in Dorset will also appreciate that.
The speech that I am about to make should not need to be made, but I wish to put the record straight once and for all. I intervened in the speech of the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, South (Mr. Stevenson) about his remarks on the origins of the scares and the assertion that the Government did not care about public health and were deregulatory to the extent that they would remove the help that regulations give to public health and safety.
I have given notice to the hon. Member for Pendle(Mr. Prentice) that I intended to refer to him. In column 1028 of yesterday's Hansard, he said that page 13 of the House of Commons Library research paper on BSE published yesterday had made it clear that the Government's deregulation had caused the problem. He quoted the paragraph that he relied on. He did not quote the sentence immediately before it, which says:
Mr. Elliot Morley (Glanford and Scunthorpe):
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Bruce:
No I will not, as I only have 10 minutes. The hon. Gentleman will have an opportunity to respond.
The situation is clearly described on pages 12, 13 and 14 of the brief that Labour Members were citing. The disgraceful behaviour of the hon. Member for Peckham led me to believe that she was briefingThe Guardian because of the nonsense that was being produced in that newspaper. The Guardian decided that it was not going to take the tabloid headline route, but would give references on where it felt the Government had failed to act in the 1980s on BSE. I contacted one of the three reporters concerned, Paul Brown, and I want to put it on record that Owen Bowcott and Alan Watkins were the other authors of the report to which I shall refer. Those gentlemen did not do the usual thing for journalists and write a story without having the facts--they had all the facts and distorted them.
A previous Conservative Government had said that we needed controls on salmonella in feedstuffs for cattle. The Labour Government consulted and did nothing during their period in office. In 1981, the Conservative Government got to grips with the problem and brought in regulations for the testing of salmonella. The Library briefing makes it clear that the problem that has now been identified regarding the reduction of temperatures for the processing of foodstuffs is not a consequence of a deregulatory measure. It was decided to change the arrangements in the light of the Flixborough disaster, which effectively showed that high temperatures could cause problems to workers in such plants.
We now know that that was incorrect. We can all say, with the benefit of hindsight, that we should perhaps not have changed the measures, but no warning was received from any of the scientists. The Guardian article suggested that a warning was contained in a royal commission report on pollution, which stated:
Mr. Bruce:
The hon. Gentleman shakes his head--he clearly cannot have read the report.
Mr. Morley:
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Bruce:
No. The hon. Gentleman can make his own speech in his own time. I have very little time, and I must get the record correct.
The paragraph in the report to which I am referring was produced by a learned body which was trying to get rid of--I am not sure whether this is a parliamentary expression--chicken shit. People were trying to get rid of chicken faeces, and it was suggested that a good way of doing so was to incorporate them into cattle feed.
The concern about the transfer of pathogens had nothing to do with the high-temperature processing of materials. The royal commission report stated that transfer could occur
The hon. Member for Peckham said not once but twice in the House that the Government's
Mr. Archy Kirkwood (Roxburgh and Berwickshire):
The hon. Member for South Dorset (Mr. Bruce) will forgive me, but I do not wish to abuse the protection that I am given under Standing Order No. 45A in terms of the 10-minute limit. I am sure that some of the points that he made will be dealt with in the winding-up speeches.
May I preface my speech by saying how disappointed I am that the usual channels have failed to achieve a proper amendable motion for this evening's debate? The Government would be quite wrong to believe that, because they have decided to pursue this course of action--despite the strong representations made by all Opposition parties--with the annual common agricultural policy debate, they have the right to establish this as a precedent. It is important for the House that the annual CAP debate is carried out on an amendable motion so that hon. Members have the maximum opportunity to voice an opinion that the Government can take into account when they negotiate price fixing annually on behalf of the House. Therefore, if it comes to a vote, I shall certainly recommend that my right hon. and hon. Friends vote to demonstrate their displeasure at the way in which the Government have handled this debate.
The two-day debate has been useful, as was the earlier half-day debate on the subject on Monday. It became fairly heated, but that is the way of these matters. The House has given thorough scrutiny to what I, who represent a beef-producing constituency, consider the most severe financial problem that my landward areas have experienced, certainly since I was elected and probably for a generation.
The collapse of market confidence in beef has had a terrible effect on the beef industry and associated businesses--and, indeed, on the whole rural economy. It is right, therefore, that the House should spend time looking at what the Government are doing and the consequences for our constituents. Some of my constituents are in desperate need of help. The uncertainty that is prevalent is driving them to absolute despair. The hon. Member for Monklands, East (Mrs. Liddell) referred to a number of poignant cases, and other hon. Members from both sides of the House could add to them. The perception outside is that the authorities have not responded with the urgency that our constituents have a right to expect.
Nevertheless, I must say that I acknowledge what Ministers have done. No one could claim that they are not trying hard, but the scale of the problem and the apparent lack of planning has overwhelmed beef producers and the industry, and more needs to be done. More important--this may not be a point for this debate--we must, as a House, be able in the fullness of time to look our beef industry and our primary producers straight in the eye and say that nothing like this will ever happen again. We must learn the long-term lessons.
The Government are up to their necks trying to deal with an urgent problem, and I accept this may not be the time to deal with my point, but I hope that they will bear it in mind that lessons must be learnt. The consequences of the crisis will not be confined to the beef sector, but will spread throughout every sector of agriculture in the coming months if we are not careful. The Government have done what they can. They have sent sympathetic messages, and the speeches made yesterday by the Minister of Agriculture and today by the Minister of State were helpful, but tangible help is necessary.
I want to make one or two suggestions that I hope will be constructive and be taken in the spirit in which they are offered.
If I were the Minister, I would examine the opportunities and prospects under the framework announced in the recent rural White Paper, which included some imaginative proposals. There were some mechanisms that could be used to provide temporary emergency help for the rural economy. That would require Ministers to go back to the Treasury and argue stoutly for short-term assistance and funding. I hope that they will consider that to try to mitigate the short-term losses.
I know that there are arguments about costs and that there can be no blank cheques, but Ministers should consider asking the Treasury, if the crisis is still unresolved in November, to consider temporary emergency tax relief, once cause has been shown, for the associated industries such as hauliers and marts. They have been hit by the crisis but are not earmarked for compensation. Little ingenuity and money could go a long way to create hope in the future for small rural businesses.
I hope that Ministers will use their good offices to put as much pressure as possible on the banks. I know that that has been done in the past and that, in general, the banks have been quite good, but the pressure on them will increase before the crisis is over. If the Government could use gentle persuasion in their contacts with the banks, that would help to create extra time to resolve problems.
I hope that Ministers will not forget that they could spend useful time with their colleagues in the Department of Health. The mental pressures on producers, certainly in my area, are intense. They put a great deal of themselves into their work and hate the idea of slaughtering beasts that they consider to be safe. The psychological pressure of financial difficulties, possible bankruptcy and seeing their lives' work destroyed is bound to lead to stress, illness, mental tension and perhaps even worse. The House cannot ignore that problem.
There are some more immediate actions that should be considered. The Secretary of State for Scotland has accepted that there are specific Scottish perspectives to
the problem. The hon. Member for Monklands, East referred to them, and I do not need to reiterate what she said. I remind the House that £120 million of Scottish beef was exported last year--20 per cent. of total production. It is especially urgent for Scotland that the problem be resolved.
Everyone agrees that lifting the ban is essential. I wish the Government well in the negotiations on Monday. I am optimistic that the first progressive lifting of the ban on the three products that will be discussed on Monday will be the first step towards the progressive lifting of the whole ban.
When I and some of my hon. Friends visited the Commission, we found that there was a different perception there. It was willing to help, although it is true that its focus was on the eradication of the disease. It was explained that the fact that it had taken control of the situation by imposing a European ban in the short term had given it the ability to lift the ban unilaterally without the need for 14 sets of bilateral negotiations by the Government. It asked for more steps to be taken more quickly and it is understandable that it was seeking concrete proposals before going all the way to lifting the ban wholly. I hope that the Government will do everything within reason that would be adequate to the task. No one supports the German scheme of mass slaughter, but there is bound to be an additional selective slaughter scheme. The state of play on that remains unclear. The negotiations on Monday will be uppermost in the Government's mind, as is right and proper, but I hope that, in his reply, the Minister will comment on that.
There is also the problem of specialist herds, which especially affects Scotland. I know that a consultation paper has been issued, but I understand that producers in my constituency--certainly, owners of Dexter herds--think that the scheme is restrictive and may not help as much as the Government imagine. I hope that the Minister will take that to heart.
The Minister's opening speech dealt usefully with market supply measures as far as it went. While 9,000 tonnes is a step forward, in terms of the previous two tranches it is not enough. I ask him again to redouble his efforts to make intervention easier. The Prime Minister assured the farmers whom he met in Aberdeen last week that he would do his best to get rid of red tape. I take him at his word and I hope that something tangible will result in the next few weeks.
On the disposal scheme, rendering remains a bottleneck and is still not working properly. I was pleased by what the Minister said about the supermarkets that have been difficult about abattoirs getting into the scheme. We support his position on that. I hope that he will consider bringing forward cold storage and incineration measures as fast as he can. I was pleased by what he said about that. There is a case for the introduction of new incineration facilities because the problem will take a long time to sort out.
Will the Minister consider making better use of existing CAP mechanisms? He must argue in the EU for help under the beef special premium scheme. It may be possible to get earlier access to arable set-aside land for grazing. In the autumn, if the crisis has not been resolved, some beef producers may decide to give up beef and go into cereals. We would march into a cereal overshoot next year, which would be in no one's interest. In the short
term, perhaps for one year, he should examine the suckler cow premium, about which he has some discretion. The ceiling allows another £26, which he may be able to use. I hope that he will have early recourse to that to deal with some of the immediate problems. Perhaps the Minister could consider the reference herd--from memory, the number of animals in Scotland is 244,000. If that could be increased, it would take pressure off the market.
"the 1981 order did mark a tightening of rules not a relaxation."
The hon. Member for Peckham (Ms Harman) referred to two documents when she replied to the Minister's statement on BSE. She suggested that they said that the Labour party wanted tighter regulations and the Conservative Government had introduced looser regulations. That was nonsense. The Conservative regulations are tighter than the regulations which the Labour party envisaged.
"The major problem encountered in this recycling process . . . is the risk of transmitting disease-bearing pathogens to stock and thence to humans."
The reporters must have read the whole paragraph in the royal commission report.
"when the ensiling process takes place on the farm and inadequate precautions are taken to ensure that pathogens are not carried to the clamp, perhaps on the wheels of vehicles."
We have wonderful journalists in this country. They have read and understood the facts--certainly the reporter to whom I spoke understood them--but in this case, the journalists decided to write a story that would frighten people and give the wrong impression.
"reckless disregard for public health and their dogma of deregulation"--[Official Report, 25 March 1996; Vol. 1719, c. 712.]
have caused the crisis. That was the message that went out to people around the EC, and it has continued to be sent out today. Unless we understand that lies have been spoken, we cannot find the truth and discover where we should go from here.
6.4 pm
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