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The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman sets out precisely the matters that we have been discussing with officials from the Ministry of Agriculture and the Cabinet Office in Brussels in the past week or so and at the innumerable meetings that my right hon. and learned
Friend has attended. Each and every matter that the hon. Gentleman has just raised has been among those that were discussed with the Commission and our European partners. It is precisely because we have discussed all those matters, yet we are still unable to determine what further is sought by the European Union from the United Kingdom before it will lift the ban, that there is such frustration over those negotiations.
I did not lightly come to the House this afternoon. I brought the measures to the House because there is deep frustration over the nature of the discussions and the fact that, when we make proposals, there is no clear indication whether they are acceptable or, if not, in which areas they are unacceptable. It is no good our partners making demands of us and not sitting down and discussing with us precisely what those demands should be.
For those reasons of frustration, we have felt it necessary to illustrate the importance that we attach to these matters and say that, until our European partners are prepared to sit down and discuss them in detail with us as they affect Wales, Northern Ireland and England, and the Aberdeen Angus industry in Scotland, we shall be unable to sit down and discuss with them other matters that are dear to them. That is why we shall block matters that require unanimity.
Mr. David Nicholson (Taunton):
Over the last eight weeks, Ministers--in particular, my right hon. and learned Friend--have shown extraordinary patience with our European partners, and we have seen hopes raised time after time only to be dashed again 24 hours later. Therefore, is it not clear that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has come to the House this afternoon to make this most welcome statement as a result of the fact that on these Benches, I hope elsewhere in the House, and also in the countryside, that patience with our European partners has now rapidly evaporated?
Is it not also clear that the response of the Leader of the Opposition shows not only that he is confused, because that I think we are familiar with, but that he is, on this subject, frankly rattled?
The Prime Minister:
I am grateful for my hon. Friend's generous words about my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Agriculture.
Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover):
That will not save him.
The Prime Minister:
A non-farmer speaks. In many cases, my right hon. and learned Friend has been the whipping boy for frustration, but I know the efforts that he has made to determine a way through a particularly difficult problem and to represent the interests of the farming industry. When he reports to the House in a few moments, they will see again his efforts on behalf of Britain.
Mr. Skinner:
Does the Prime Minister recall that, when he was asked precisely what the sanctions were, he said that Ministers would raise the matter at every meeting? Does that imply that they have not been doing that already during the past eight weeks?
The Prime Minister also said that he would get in touch with all the various leaders. They have been trotting across here to Britain in the past few weeks. The Prime Minister has invited President Chirac over here and filled him full of beef. He also had Helmut Kohl over here. It says something about the Prime Minister's influence with those leaders that he invited them over here, he wined and dined them, and then they voted against him--or they got somebody else to do their dirty work.
The Prime Minister should realise that the Common Market is now moving from social issues to economic and political issues. It is now dealing with issues on a political level. Why does he not have the guts to do the only thing he can do? When I used to negotiate with the pit manager, I would threaten to stop the wheels. If he had any guts, he would tell the people in the Common Market that we will stop the flow of money. That is the only real sanction he has.
The Prime Minister:
It is always good to hear from new Labour.
Mr. Terry Lewis (Worsley):
That is insulting.
The Prime Minister:
I could not comment about that. However, I hope that it is duly noted that Opposition Members below the Gangway consider it an insult to be referred to as "new Labour".
The hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) says that European leaders have been over here, I have wined and dined them and then they have gone home and voted against us. But President Chirac voted for us. The hon. Gentleman makes one assertion, and he gets it wrong. It is good to see that old Labour is alive and kicking, if not thinking. [Interruption.] I must say, it is very instructive to watch the body language above and below the Gangway. I hope that the cameras are pointed in that direction.
I must refer to some of the hon. Gentleman's omissions. He forgot to mention that we said that we would block all measures requiring unanimity--a number of which will come up in the next few weeks. He forgot that we said that we would block progress in the intergovernmental conference. The IGC cannot reach a conclusion without unanimity, so it cannot reach a conclusion unless this matter is completely determined. Neither will the present agenda at the foreign summit proceed unless it deals with the beef question.
Apparently none of those facts reached the hon. Gentleman. He clearly was not listening earlier, so I hope that he is listening now. [Interruption.] He may listen, but I fear that he does not understand.
Mr. Phil Gallie (Ayr):
In his words today, my right hon. Friend clearly identifies with the frustrations felt by many of my constituents who work in the agriculture and food processing industries. They recognise the need for dialogue in Europe. Their frustrations have grown in the past two months, and their lives have been totally disrupted. It is now time to make a stand, and they will welcome my right hon. Friend's statement today.
The Prime Minister:
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. That statement presages a renewed attempt to reach agreement by negotiation. As my hon. Friend says, we are acting in the interests of the beef and allied industries, and we want to solve the problem as speedily as we can.
Mr. Alex Salmond (Banff and Buchan):
Further to the point made by the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr. Ross), has the Prime Minister noticed that Farming Ministers in three of the countries that voted against Britain yesterday--Germany, the Netherlands and Spain--have expressed an interest in the position of specialist beef herds, particularly those in Scotland and in Northern Ireland? The Prime Minister mentioned that in his statement.
I ask that the argument about specialist beef herds be put at the forefront of the United Kingdom strategy because it seems to offer a practical way forward. Eight weeks into the crisis, will the right hon. Gentleman instruct the Scottish Office to accelerate work on the verification schemes, which would allow us to trade on the reputation of Scottish beef and lead all beef back into European markets?
The Prime Minister:
The hon. Gentleman is quite right: the verification schemes are very important. We are accelerating progress on those schemes, not only in Scotland but elsewhere in the United Kingdom where there are no proper schemes in place. The point he raises is at the forefront of the negotiations.
I repeat that we are prepared to sit down and reach an agreement that will lead to a proper framework for lifting the ban comprehensively. However, other people must sit down with us. If they are not prepared to accept our offer to sit down and engage in constructive dialogue in order to bridge the difference between us, and if they simply say--as they have done--"We do not think what you are proposing is sufficient," but will not then engage in proper dialogue about what is sufficient, it is not a two-way dialogue.
I wish to obtain that two-way dialogue. It is largely frustration over that matter that has led to our decision to elevate the political imperative of reaching agreement on the issue for the farming industry.
Mr. Richard Alexander (Newark):
My right hon. Friend's robust response today will get a wide welcome in the country, not least in the agricultural community. Is he aware, however, that, if the United Kingdom were to offer an increased cull of cattle beyond what is absolutely necessary, it would cause grave damage not only to the acceptability in the country of what we are doing but to our future milk and beef supplies? Those aspects must be considered, too.
The Prime Minister:
I should like to deal with that point, because I know that it is a matter of concern to some of my hon. Friends.
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