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Mr. Freeman: It depends what the right hon. Gentleman means by "progress". I assume that the relevant Select Committee will report before the summer
recess and that I shall have the opportunity to study its recommendations and perhaps even discuss the matter again. Therefore, we shall not conclude the process until that has occurred. [Interruption.] The right hon. Gentleman places particular stress on the word "conclude". He will know that it takes many months of careful planning--I shall comment on the timetable in a moment--to conclude a complicated privatisation. That process should, and will, continue and it will not be concluded until the Select Committee has reported--so long as that occurs before the summer recess.
Mr. Gunnell: Will we debate the matter again in the House before the process is concluded? The privatisation announcement was made in an answer to a written question, and this is the first opportunity that hon. Members have had to discuss it. It is a highly controversial matter, and it is not good to debate it immediately before a recess, when few hon. Members are able to participate in the debate. I believe that we should debate the matter in full in the House.
Mr. Freeman: I understand the hon. Gentleman's concerns: he has expressed them very clearly. The matter does not require legislation, as Opposition Front Benchers know and understand. We are debating the matter properly today. If the Opposition call another proper debate on the subject--as occurred with Her Majesty's Stationery Office--I shall be happy to respond. We have debated the issue three times and we shall debate it properly now. I am trying to explain the reasons for our decision. I believe that we should clear away some of the less rational comments regarding the process, look at the issues in an unemotional manner--perhaps in a boring fashion--and come to a considered conclusion.
Mr. Bernard Jenkin: I apologise again to my right hon. Friend for my absence earlier. We look forward to seeing the Opposition Front Bench, as represented by the archetype of new Labour, participate constructively in the debate. I am sure that Opposition Front Benchers will not opt for the reflex anti-privatisation reaction that we expect from Labour Back Benchers.
Mr. Freeman: I am grateful to my hon. Friend and I look forward to his contribution during the debate, which I am sure, as always, will be based on a wealth of experience.
RAS has already had some success in its exploration of wider public sector markets. The Government believe that freedom from public sector operating constraints will allow it to exploit and develop fully its considerable expertise with new customers, including private sector customers. That is why we announced last November that RAS should be privatised. Since that announcement, we have advertised the potential sale of the business and received completed questionnaires from interested bidders. Those expressions of interest have undergone an initial sift and I intend to send a detailed information memorandum describing the business to bidders who have pre-qualified, inviting them to submit indicative bids for the business.
The information memorandum will be issued shortly. I intend to place a copy of the letter inviting bids and the information memorandum--omitting commercially sensitive and personal information--in the Libraries of
each House. I shall write to the right hon. Member for Bishop Auckland about the matter as soon as I can. If the memorandum is issued during the recess, I shall send him a letter detailing the steps that I have taken.
The important civil service reforms that have been carried through in recent years have given rise to concerns in another place that key public service values may be under threat. Those concerns were voiced in the debate on the civil service last year, which considered the report on the role of the civil service by the former Treasury and Civil Service Committee as well as the Government's Command Paper "Taking Forward Continuity and Change", which accepted most of the Committee's conclusions. On that occasion, we made clear our continuing commitment to the principles laid down in the Northcote-Trevelyan reforms of the 19th century, which underpin the integrity and the quality of our civil service. I have already restated that commitment today.
Nevertheless, the opinion recently expressed in the other place on our proposals for the future of RAS was clearly based on that same concern. It was suggested that privatisation would remove a key safeguard of public service standards and risk a decline in the quality of recruitment procedures, and so of recruits themselves. I shall be appearing before their Lordships' Public Service Select Committee shortly after the recess, and I look forward to receiving the Committee's report--which I understand is expected before the summer recess--on its findings regarding the privatisation of RAS. When that Committee reports, I shall consider its recommendations with care and respond in due course. Meanwhile, we are adhering to the privatisation timetable, which is aimed at a successful completion later in the summer.
I want to explain why the concerns are misplaced, not least because of the safeguards that we are introducing to guarantee the integrity and quality of civil service recruitment undertaken by RAS after privatisation.
Mr. Michael Connarty (Falkirk, East):
Does the Minister agree that there is already a great problem, in that 1,706 maladministration complaints have been filed with the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration in the past year? Is there not an increasing correlation between departmental maladministration and the loss of 32,000 civil servants since 1993? How can quality be achieved when staff are put under amazing pressure through job cuts?
Mr. Freeman:
I do not accept that there is any correlation between examples of maladministration and civil service staff numbers. I accept that there is great pressure on the civil service, as there is on just about every private sector company. We live in a much more competitive world, and the House and the taxpayer demand proper value for money and control of public expenditure.
Mrs. Dunwoody:
Is not that nonsense? The specific terms laid down for the creation of the Child Support Agency specified that civil servants should not normally be recruited, but outside people with no experience should be recruited--many of whom are on shift work of no more than four and a half hours and are badly paid. If the Minister seriously believes that that produces quality work, I suggest that he reads carefully not only criticisms
Mr. Freeman:
I submit that those problems are to do with procedures, not the number of civil servants employed.
Mr. Derek Foster:
I am totally surprised that the Minister dismisses the parliamentary ombudsman's criticism, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Falkirk, East (Mr. Connarty) referred. When I tackled the Parliamentary Secretary in a debate only a short time ago, he dismissed the argument in the same way. He felt that nothing in the report underpinned what had been said in the press release. I took the opportunity to write to the ombudsman, and he reaffirmed his comments in the press release and said that he had all the evidence required to underpin his criticism.
Mr. Freeman:
No one disagrees that the duties of a particular Department must be discharged with the appropriate number of civil servants, but I do not accept the contention that the reduction in their total number correlates to the number of complaints of maladministration, for which there are many reasons.
Mr. Connarty:
As a member of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration Select Committee, I can tell the Minister that many permanent secretaries have appeared before it--and when we ask about maladministration, it comes down to pressure on staff. When staff make a mistake, they do not have time to find out how it was made, who made it and how it can be corrected. Pressure is created by lack of numbers, and even changes to the system have not relieved that pressure. Will the Minister accept that point, before he rushes headlong down the road of further cuts and maladministration?
Mr. Freeman:
One of the factors relating to the responsibilities of a specific Department and the way in which it discharges its duties is staff numbers. Many other factors, however, are involved: the procedures, the training and whether the right balance between public sector and contracted-out functions has been struck, to name but three. The general contention that there is a correlation of some kind between the number of cases of maladministration--1,706 was the figure cited--and the decline in the number of civil servants is not sustainable.
The concerns expressed in another place tend to imply that our proposals--to privatise RAS--will change the rules governing civil service recruitment and the responsibilities for ensuring that they are followed. They will not. The rules, based on the principles of fair and open competition and selection on merit, are rightly regarded as cornerstones of civil service integrity. Those rules are embodied in the civil service Order in Council and set out in the recruitment code of the independent civil service commissioners. Departments and agencies are responsible for ensuring that the requirements of the code are met.
The commissioners audit their recruitment policies against those requirements. RAS has only an operational role as a provider of recruitment, assessment and
consultancy services to civil service customers who choose to use it. It retains no links with the regulatory functions of the commissioners. Those arrangements are in no way affected by the privatisation of RAS.
It has also been suggested that our proposals may affect the quality of recruitment, in particular recruitment to the civil service fast stream. In their response to the review of the fast stream, published in July 1994, the Government announced their intention to retain a servicewide fast stream scheme aimed at recruiting the very best graduates. The privatisation of RAS will not change that. We propose to convey to the new private sector owner of RAS the exclusive contracts to provide fast stream customers with the recruitment services that they require.
It might be helpful to the House if I describe the safeguards designed to guarantee the integrity and quality of the fast stream selection process after the sale.
Most importantly, there will continue to be close civil service involvement at all stages. We have stipulated that actual selection of candidates must remain in the hands of civil servants. The civil service will continue to provide assessors at the civil service selection boards--the main assessment stage of the process--and panel members for final selection boards. They, not RAS, will decide the success or failure of candidates.
The main fast stream contract is being drawn up in consultation with the customer consortium of fast stream employing Departments and is designed to ensure that they retain at least the same control over the process and tests used in their competitions after the sale as they currently enjoy. The Office of Public Service will work with customer departments and RAS to ensure that obligations are met and that the day-to-day operation of the contract runs smoothly. Those running specialist fast stream schemes are also involved in the work to create separate contracts that will meet their particular requirements. Customers--Government Departments--will also be closely consulted in the selection of the new owner.
The detail of all stages of the selection processes will be set out in the contract schedules. In his recent independent audit of the fast stream, Professor Bartram commended RAS's approach of treating those processes as dynamic rather than fixed, and it will be important for the processes to continue to change and evolve in response to customer needs. However, all changes will need approval from those customers. It will not be possible for the new owner to seek to take short cuts, therefore, in an effort to reduce costs. Nor would the new owner want to do so. We shall select a new owner with a clear commitment to making a success of those prestigious contracts and to maintaining the reputation that RAS has established for its leading-edge public sector recruitment and assessment work. The new owner can be expected to put greater effort into maintaining positive and productive relationships with civil service customers.
The Government will retain ownership of the tests and exercises used in the fast stream selection process, including those developed by the new owner for fast stream use. The tests for use in each competition will continue to be approved by customers. Civil servants will still be responsible for preparing background exercises based on civil service work. Under the terms of the intellectual property licence to be granted to the new owner, the tests will be strictly protected while current. Use of old tests elsewhere will be subject to provisions
designed to ensure that the integrity and efficacy of the fast stream schemes is in no way compromised. Again, customers are closely involved in the work on the licence, as well as the contractual terms relating to that area.
The staff of RAS have shown great commitment in maintaining the highest standards of service, while also working to prepare for privatisation. We of course attach the utmost importance to ensuring that they are treated fairly and that their rights are fully respected in the process. Arrangements have been made to keep staff as closely involved and informed as possible. We intend to publish the short-list of bidders in due course, so that staff representatives can have the opportunity to meet prospective purchasers and discuss their plans with them. As has been the case with other transfers to the private sector, the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 1981 will apply at the point of sale to preserve all terms and conditions.
I can also state that we would not wish to take forward proposals from bidders which include the utilisation of offices outside Basingstoke or its immediate vicinity for the head office operations of RAS. That will provide reassurances to staff.
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