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Mr. Beith: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Earlier in the debate, the hon. Member for East Kilbride (Mr. Ingram) mentioned a number of written answers about the privatisation of some parts of the civil service, which were due to be published at 3.30 pm. I have been seeking the same written answers for much of the day. The hon. Gentleman has gone out of the Chamber again to establish whether they are in the Library. It seems unreasonable that we should be debating significant matters of privatisation when that material, which the Government announced today, is not before us and was not explained by the Minister in his remarks. I hope that you do not mind my drawing Ministers' attention to that matter in a point of order.
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael Morris): I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman does not expect me to answer that question, but Ministers are present and undoubtedly heard his point of order. They may want to respond.
Dr. Jeremy Bray (Motherwell, South): Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. There can be no further points: the answer was clear.
Dr. Bray: On another point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: I shall take it if it is a new point of order.
Dr. Bray: The House is debating the civil service and the prior options study has been completed. The answers to the written questions on the Order Paper have been given to the Select Committee on Science and Technology.
Mr. Freeman: Further to that point of order,Mr. Deputy Speaker. I heard what the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith) said. Those questions are not my Department's responsibility, but during the debate I shall ascertain what the position is and I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will be able to deal with it in his reply.
4.54 pm
Mr. James Couchman (Gillingham): I wish to discuss the prior options review, about which the points of order were made.
The phrase, "prior options review" is remarkably Stalinist. I do not propose to go down the track taken by the right hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Mr. Foster), but the idea that devolution in Scotland can be achieved without the most extraordinary upheaval in civil service and government generally is beyond belief.
In a touching ceremony on 30 April, only three weeks ago, my noble Friend Baroness Chalker gave my noble Friend Baroness Young a large golden or gilded key that fitted the buildings in my constituency formerly known as HMS Pembroke, which for the past eight years have housed the natural resources institute of the Overseas Development Administration. The keys were handed over by the ODA to the university of Greenwich in what may be the first of several such handovers from the public to the private sector.
The university of Greenwich will manage the NRI on behalf of a powerful consortium that consists of itself, Imperial college London, Wye agricultural college and the university of Edinburgh. I believe that the handover will be good for the NRI, which relies largely on commercial contracts for its resources. It will certainly be good for the consortium of four powerful universities and it will be especially good for the university of Greenwich because it involves the injection of a centre of scientific excellence that has world renown for its research. That will lift the research component of the university of Greenwich. The site is particularly well located alongside the university's recently arrived school of earth sciences, which shares part of the buildings once known as HMS Pembroke, which were occupied by the Navy in the days of the Royal Navy base at Chatham.
Greenwich is a thrusting and ambitious university. It was a polytechnic for 100 years but it is a young university. It is trying to rationalise its many sites into five campuses. Hon. Members will know of its bid, which is believed to be successful, for the Royal Naval college at Greenwich. The NRI in its former naval buildings is an excellent fit and addition to the university's research capacity, especially as its membership of the consortium forges links with pre-eminent academic institutions. This will be the forerunner of many public sector research establishments moving from the public sector to the sort of private sector that the consortium represents.
The NRI was ready for the change thanks to the excellent work of its director until the handover, who is working closely with my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. Thanks are also due to his staff over the period since it became an agency.
Last Friday, my wife and I visited the Horticultural Research International establishment at East Malling in the constituency of my right hon. Friend the Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Sir J. Stanley). Its headquarters is at Wellesbourne and was mentioned in the brief intervention of the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Mr. Howarth), who I am sorry to see is no longer in his place. I went to discuss the research that is being done at East Malling with its director of external affairs,Dr. Flegg. He was able to show me some of the important work on hops, apples, pears, strawberries, raspberries and cherries. That work is important for Kent--the garden of England. In Kent, we depend for our horticultural excellence on many small and medium-sized growers, who frequently market through co-operatives and who would certainly not be able to undertake strategic research of the type that is undertaken by HRI.
There is great concern at HRI, and I propose to paraphrase extensively from its chief executive's letter, which may have been sent to other hon. Members. HRI staff are worried that HRI, although it may one day be ready for privatisation--perhaps to the university sector, as has happened to the natural resources institute--is not currently ready for privatisation, mainly because it is not sufficiently robust financially.
I do not hold the view expressed by the Institution of Professionals, Managers and Specialists that privatisation should never take place, and I find its briefing somewhat misleading and at least very selective in the quotes that it gives us from the prior options review guidelines. I agree with certain points that it makes, however, and especially that:
IPMS also says that it is very important to maintain the independence and integrity of such research establishments in the advice that they give to farmers on, for example, pollution, which is currently provided by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.
I am much taken with the arguments of Professor Payne, the chief executive of Horticulture Research International. He has expressed concern that decisions will be taken by Ministers about the future of HRI in the very near future, and the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith) is worried that those decisions may have been taken, although the information is not available to us in written answers. I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will be able to clear that up.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of Public Service (Mr. David Willetts):
Although this subject is not within my Department's responsibility, we are checking the position at the moment. We understand that the written answers are being tabled and are on their way to hon. Members; I apologise for any delay that hon. Members have experienced in receiving them. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy is pursuing the matter.
Mr. Couchman:
I am very grateful to my hon. Friend. He will understand that my remarks are obviously made in ignorance of what may be in those written answers, which are not yet available to us.
It is very important to continue to provide strong research and development for the United Kingdom's horticultural industry. The rapid changes in ownership of HRI might compromise that strength, and I hope that when Ministers take these decisions they will be conscious of the need to maintain HRI as a centre of excellence for horticultural research and development. It currently operates in the public sector for the public good, and it is already the product of several earlier rationalisations.
"The scientific activities undertaken by public sector research establishments are often of a long term nature. Security of funding and freedom from constant contractual and organisational upheaval are required to enable them to flourish."
An example is marine studies undertaken in the interests of the environment by scientists for the Natural Environmental Research Council.
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