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Mr. David Evans: Does my hon. Friend believe that the great success of the premier league has brought about
a situation in which probably only six clubs out of all those in this country are now capable of winning the league or any other domestic trophy? Does he agree with that?
Mr. Greenway: My hon. Friend is right, and he has anticipated the "but" in my speech that I was coming to. I suspect that it is more likely that the big six is the big 10 or the big 12.
Madam Deputy Speaker, I had hoped to catch your eye after the speech of the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Mr. Pendry), because I wanted to congratulate him on the restraint that he showed in his speech by not mentioning the fact that Derby County--his beloved Derby--is now part of that elite. One hopes to goodness that Derby, Sunderland up in the north-east, and--which is the other team that has just been promoted?[Hon. Members: "Leicester City."]--fare rather better than Leicester did last time it was promoted, and Bolton Wanderers did last year.
Mr. Evans:
It is going to be tough.
Mr. Greenway:
I hear what my hon. Friend says; it will be tough. There is no doubt that the "them and us" between the premier league and the rest of the football league is growing.
Yesterday we heard the announcement about the tremendous expenditure by BSkyB and the BBC on the deal, which is worth approximately £750 million, to screen live matches and highlights. That is another huge input of money into the premier league. My hon. Friend the Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Mr. Evans) might have been right in his earlier intervention on the speech of my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Putney (Mr. Mellor), when he said that not a penny of that will go to the rest of the football league.
Mr. Greenway:
He may be right. My point is that, if that is the case, it is an absolute scandal. We must impress on the Football Association and on the premier league the importance of ensuring that more of that money goes down to the lower leagues. I think that we can be reasonably assured that, because of the work of the Football Trust and the continuation of the pool betting duty reductions, we will see ground improvements in the lower league.
We now have a big job in ensuring that grounds in the second and third divisions, the Vauxhall Conference and the rugby league clubs are brought up to the same standard as in the premier league and the first division. I think that we can more or less take that as read, although some clubs struggle to find contributions, which the trust recognises.
The real point is that the structure that we have had in this country--there used to be a four-division league--has ensured that we have a bottom-up approach to finding talent rather than a top-down approach. If anyone thinks that we will win Euro 96--I hope to goodness that we do, or that we do well--or that we will win the World cup in two, six or 10 years' time while starving the grass-roots of cash, they are very stupid. I am speaking now only about soccer, but the same applies in many other sports.
One has only to consider that, tomorrow afternoon, David Platt will lead out the England team as captain. He came from Crewe Alexandra. Derby County has a young player--perhaps he is not so young now--Marco Gabbiadini, who started at York City as a junior. There is an argument about transfer fees. The problem in the Bosman case will increasingly affect the value of some of the players.
The thrust of what my hon. Friend the Minister said today about the need to encourage more youngsters is good. However, I stress that I should like more youngsters to be encouraged, and that they should have the determination to play professional soccer for local teams, whether it is York City, Swansea, Fulham or Torquay--four teams that have not done so well--or Luton Town, which we will play next year. We stayed up and, sadly, Luton went down. I shall look forward to it. We will play Watford and Milwall. Those clubs have struggled.
If they are good enough, I should like to see youngsters encouraged and enthused to have a professional career. If we are to improve the facilities and training available to them at the grass-roots, we must give them the opportunity of having a professional career, and then to move up into the premier league. It would be an act of great folly if those clubs were allowed to drift into part-time soccer because of a lack of resources, at a time when there is so much money coming into football because of the premier league deal.
Mr. Ashton:
The simple solution would be for smaller clubs to agree to become nursery clubs. There is a strong feeling in the premier league that that system could work--for example, York City could be a nursery club for Newcastle United and Luton for Arsenal. The clubs could help each other and the money would travel downwards. The smaller clubs would provide somewhere for young players to train on their way up and the whole scheme would be of benefit to all concerned, but no one is pushing it.
Mr. Greenway:
I know that the hon. Gentleman has advanced that theory before and there is some merit in it. In north Yorkshire, we have York City, Scarborough, Hartlepool, Darlington, Lincoln City, Scunthorpe United and Doncaster Rovers and then Middlesbrough and Leeds United. Not all the smaller clubs can be dormitory or nursery clubs for other teams.
It is marvellous that the three north-east teams will all be in the premier league next year. That has not happened for a long time. The success of Newcastle United means that there is great interest in football in the north-east, and Middlesbrough has a new stadium.
I have made the point as forcefully as I can that two things are needed at the grass-roots of the game: the development of facilities for youngsters--I shall comment on that matter in a moment--and ensuring that the game also thrives in the lower leagues. People will watch Euro 96 on television and I hope that they will be sufficiently enthused to go and watch their local teams come August. That happened in 1966 when we won the World cup--it provided a tremendous boost for attendances at matches all over the country.
I am sorry that my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Putney is no longer in his place. He made the telling point that kids who live two miles from Chelsea
football club cannot get or cannot afford tickets to watch Chelsea but that they would be welcomed with open arms at Fulham, which is not far away. In the same way, if people cannot get tickets to see Leeds United or Middlesbrough, if they cannot travel the distance involved or if parents are unhappy about letting their children go there, we would welcome them with open arms at York City. We are expanding our facilities to build a new family stand so that people can enjoy their football. However, we cannot do it all unless we are a proper professional club and have financial support from the top.
Mr. David Evans:
Is my hon. Friend aware that the previous two champions of the Vauxhall league have been refused admission to the football league because of bureaucracy? It was alleged that their grounds were not up to standard at Christmas but the ground at Stevenage, which won the league this year, is up to scratch. Does he not think that it is completely wrong that a club should play for a whole season and win the Vauxhall league but, because of a closed shop, a club such as Torquay, which has struggled for 20 years, is not relegated?
Mr. Greenway:
I cannot justify it, but I remember that when Maidstone United won promotion it did not have its own ground and had to play at Dartford. That caused a great deal of bitterness in what was then the fourth division. That was why the rule to which my hon. Friend refers was introduced. Clubs could spend all their money on players and nothing on their ground but, when they were promoted, people had to go to watch them at a pit of a place. Poor Bristol Rovers is still playing at Bath and its plans for a new ground are still not completely developed. My hon. Friend makes a valid point. It is important that there is a flow of teams being relegated and promoted, including via the Vauxhall Conference. The matter that he highlights leaves a nasty taste in the mouth and must seem very unfair to Stevenage supporters.
I mentioned the development of facilities. I greatly welcome my hon. Friend the Minister's comments about facilities in schools and access to national lottery money. Only the other day, he received a presentation from a company called All Four Sports. It intends to create indoor facilities at grass-roots level for the four sports of cricket, soccer, hockey and rugby. The project has the support of a number of sports associations and a number of leading sportsmen.
I have referred to the project because I believe that there can be no real criticism of the way in which the Sports Council has dealt with its responsibility as a funding body for lottery money. However, it is becoming increasingly clear that we need people to have commitment, to show initiative and to show enterprise, whether in the public sector, the voluntary sector or private businesses. They must act as the catalyst to get access to the money so that we can create a range of facilities.
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