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Mr. Hogg: The recommendations are advice to Ministers. When we have come to our conclusions--I shall turn to the departments for which I have responsibility in a moment--we will have to announce them swiftly. The hon. Member for Edinburgh, East is quite right about staff morale. It is important that decisions are announced with all possible speed. We shall also have to explain the considerations that have led us to those conclusions, and we shall do that by way of a memorandum to the Select Committee on Science and Technology.
Mr. Hogg: I am going to make some progress.
I turn to the prior options review in the areas for which I have departmental responsibility. Five Ministry organisations are involved: the research and development arm of ADAS, the Central Science Laboratory, Horticulture Research International, the Directorate of Fisheries Research and the Veterinary Laboratories Agency. The reviews of ADAS's R and D, the Central Science Laboratory, Horticulture Research International and the Directorate of Fisheries Research began in October. The review of the Veterinary Laboratories Agency started in February.
The reviews are important and it is important that we carry them through thoroughly. The points made by the hon. Member for Edinburgh, East--the need to ensure continuity in contracts, the need to ensure the availability of high-class scientific advice and the other considerations to which he drew our attention--clearly have to be addressed in the reviews.
Mr. Robert Atkins (South Ribble):
My right hon. and learned Friend will know that I represent a substantial number of growers. Doubtless I will represent more as time goes on. They are very successful, make use of research information from Horticulture Research International and are concerned not so much about whether HRI will be privatised as about whether smaller growers--as many of them are--will have access to
Mr. Hogg:
My right hon. Friend's points are important. He has represented the interests of horticulturists in his constituency with considerable force and success over many years. I note from what he has said, and agree, that the horticulturists are not opposed to privatisation. They want to ensure that contracts are constructed in such a way as to ensure that horticulturists continue to receive a similar kind of advice on the same broad terms. Those are important considerations and we shall have to reflect on what my right hon. Friend has said.
Dr. Lynne Jones:
Will the Minister give way?
Mr. Hogg:
The hon. Lady is getting very upset, so I must give way.
Dr. Jones:
I am grateful that the Minister has eventually given way. He said a few moments ago that the review's advice was given directly to Ministers, yet the press release that announced the decision on 22 May specifically stated that the review found that the functions carried out by the Council for the Central Laboratory of the Research Councils should remain in the public sector. The press release omitted to mention what the review found in respect of other institutions. Why was that? What did the review find? Is it not a fact that the Government are determined to privatise those institutions and will continue with endless reviews until they get the answer they want?
Mr. Hogg:
No, I do not agree with that. As I am the most pragmatic of men, I do not start from any dogmatic position on such matters. There may be dogmatic positions that I would assert, but they do not apply in this area of policy. I assure the hon. Lady of that. On disclosing information, we shall, as I have said, submit memorandums to the Science and Technology Committee in respect of any decisions that, ultimately, we make and explain our reasons that way.
Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow):
The Minister said that he would "reflect" on the problems raised by HRI. Is he--or at least one of his junior Ministers--prepared to meetDr. Flegg and his colleagues to discuss the matter in depth?
Mr. Hogg:
Any request for a meeting would clearly be seriously considered. I shall not give a commitment, because I do not know the gentleman in question and would like to reserve my position. I am quite sure that my right hon. Friend the Member for South Ribble(Mr. Atkins), who I suspect is articulating just the points that the hon. Gentleman has in mind, will want a meeting with Ministers. Should that be so, I look forward to seeing him. As the hon. Gentleman knows, that is the way in which the House tends to operate. Members ask to see Ministers and Ministers are well advised to see Members promptly. The hon. Gentleman and I have had many such meetings, and no doubt there are many more to come.
Sir Dudley Smith (Warwick and Leamington):
Horticulture Research International is in the now
Mr. Hogg:
My hon. Friend makes his point clearly and well. It is important that, in respect of any review that affects people's livelihood and way of life, we come to a decision as speedily as possible and that such a decision is based on good judgment, sound science and considerations that we can defend in the House. I tell my hon. Friend that we shall do just that. We have demonstrated our commitment to the research that HRI undertakes by a substantial investment of about£40 million in recent years. Clearly, it is important for us to ask in an orderly way what is the best way, in the national interest, to provide the kind of service that it provides. We will come to a decision as soon as we can.
In the case of the Directorate of Fisheries Research, the Government announced on 22 May that we had decided, following the review, that this marine research centre would become an executive agency of MAFF. We believe that that will lead to greater freedom to manage its own affairs and improve performance within a framework of targets. Decisions have not yet been taken in the case of other MAFF laboratories, and we are still considering the cases of ADAS research and development, the Central Science Laboratory and Horticulture Research International. We hope to announce our conclusions as soon as we can.
Mrs. Lait:
I welcomed the announcement on 22 May on the Directorate of Fisheries Research, but fisheries research is an inexact science. What progress does my right hon. and learned Friend expect the new agency to make in terms of reaching an agreement with the fishermen on the science of fish movements and stocks?
Mr. Hogg:
My hon. Friend's question is so broad that to try to condense it into a few lines would not do justice to the issue.
The hon. Member for Edinburgh, East referred to BSE, an important issue which has concerned the House for some months. He will know that we have substantially increased the amount spent on BSE research in the current year to more than £10 million, an increase of almost50 per cent. on the previous year. I am anxious to ensure that we have enough resources dedicated to work on BSE.
I have taken the opportunity from time to time to ask Professor Pattison, the chairman of the advisory committee, whether he thinks that the Government are devoting sufficient resources to the problem. His answer has been yes. Should that change, the Government will be anxious to respond to any demand from Professor Pattison or his Spongiform Encephalopathy Advisory Committee
colleagues. The fact that we are spending more than50 per cent. more than last year is an important sign of the significance that we attach to research in this field.
Mr. John Garrett (Norwich, South):
Until 1991, 350 BSE-infected carcases were lobbed into an open landfill site not far from the river that supplies the city of Norwich with its drinking water. Later studies put down boreholes around that site and discovered the transmission through the water table of pesticides, herbicides and chlorides. I have been told by the Environment Agency that there has been no test for the transmissibility of BSE-infected material via leachate from such a site. MAFF gave permission for the dumping of those carcases. Who is responsible for establishing the transmissibility of BSE-infected material that might end up in a river that supplies a great city with its water?
Mr. Hogg:
Before giving a considered reply, one would have to look much more closely than the hon. Gentleman and I would have time to do in order to discover the detailed facts of the matter. We are now satisfied that we have identified appropriate ways of disposing of all the specified bovine material and the carcases destroyed under the 30-month rule. We believe that we have addressed all the environmental and health issues that arise out of the regime that we have in place.
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