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Mr. Bermingham: Does my hon. Friend accept that, in the criminal courts, for example, the delay of the trial of a 13 or 14-year-old by 21 months would almost certainly be ruled an abuse of process? The criminal courts recognise that speed is essential in cases involving children.
Mr. Michie: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. He is absolutely right. He knows the law a darned sight better than I do. I am not a lawyer, and therefore speak with much more freedom, if not emotion, on the subject.
I know that the Sheffield Solicitors Family Law Association works very hard to try to ensure that couples and their children genuinely go through a process of conciliation and thoroughly understand the implications involved. I respect it for that. It would find its task more and more difficult if the period was extended. It says:
Mr. Rowe:
For once in my life, I disagree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Selby racecourse(Mr. Alison). The whole purpose of the change in Committee was to ensure that the first three months of the process after the information session was an opportunity for the couple to consider, in the light of the information that they had received, whether they were taking a step that they really wanted to take. If that process was effective, there is no doubt whatever that, over the following six to nine months, progress would be made, and, by the end of the nine months, they would decide that they did not want to go ahead with their proceedings.
If progress had not been made, and the situation was either static or deteriorating, the idea of lengthening the period still further seems absolutely fatal to the chances of further amicable relations after a divorce, and would be absolutely horrendous for the children. While the process is dynamic, there is everything to be said for giving every form of encouragement and support. Once the dynamism has gone, the idea of lengthening the process purely in order to have it on the statute book for some almost sadistic reason seems misguided.
Mr. Bermingham:
I do not intend to speak for long, since I have already made most of the points that I want to make. I declare an interest as a practising lawyer, although rarely in the matrimonial field these days. From
I voted for the Second Reading of the Bill. I voted for the 12-month period, but we were beaten on that. I hope that those in another place will bring some common sense to bear. If we were to make the children suffer for any prolonged period, we would not be serving their interests.
The Bill should have been about children. Regrettably, it is not. It is very badly drafted; it is an appalling mess. If it proceeds any further, I hope that those in another place can do something to improve it, because it needs much improvement. Surely the child's interest is first, and surely the child's disturbed period should be kept to a minimum. I therefore urge the House to support the amendment.
Mr. Leigh:
My hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Sir J. Lester) correctly outlined what the House decided on the last occasion: that the period for waiting and reflection should normally be 18 months, unless there is consent and there are no children. We in no way seek to extend that period. The time for waiting and reflection will still be 18 months after the statement of marital breakdown.
However, after the House made that decision, a series of amendments were tabled in Committee, not least by the hon. Member for Brent, South (Mr. Boateng) and me. He thought that there should be encouragement to marriage counselling at the information meeting, and a period of at least 28 days after that encouragement before a statement should be filed. I took the view that there should be a longer period of three months. The Government accepted the proposed three-month period, but that period runs after the information meeting and before the statement of marital breakdown.
As my right hon. Friend the Member for Selby(Mr. Alison) said, information meetings will often result in divorce not being proceeded with. They may be held many months before divorce proceedings are taken. The then Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnor (Mr. Evans), stated:
The problem with the amendment is that it will shorten the times for waiting and reflection from 18 months and 12 months, as they are at present, to 15 months and nine months. It could have a bad effect in forcing couples to tie up their affairs more quickly than they would otherwise want.
Lord Ackner, who is a leading practitioner in family matters, has explained that, in his experience, if there are contested proceedings on ancillary matters, it can take up
to 18 months to sort them out. The amendment could put undue pressure on the parties. On those grounds, and because we accept the verdict of the House that the time for waiting and reflection should be 18 months--no more and no less--I hope that the House will reject the amendment.
Mr. Boateng:
We visited this issue at some length in Committee with a view to ensuring that there was a dedicated space during which it was possible for the parties to concentrate on reconciliation. We have considerably improved the Bill in that respect. We have created the opportunity, for those parties who seek it, to find pathways from the information session to one-on-one counselling, with the specific objective of saving marriages that can be saved. I am satisfied that, in so doing, we have fulfilled our responsibility, which was shared by all hon. Members on Second Reading, to strengthen the Bill on reconciliation for saving marriages that can be saved.
We took another decision on the Floor of the House on the length of the period for reflection and consideration. The House had the options of 12, 18 and 24 months. Like the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Sir J. Lester), I took the view that 12 months was right. The majority of Labour Members, on a free vote, took a similar view. However, the House came to a different view and chose 18 months. I respect that. This is not the time to revisit the matter or to seek to go behind that decision. However, we must reflect on the implications of the three months that have been added specifically for the reconciliation exercise that we have created.
I take the view, and the hon. Member for Gainsborough and Horncastle (Mr. Leigh) knows it, that three months is too long. I was concerned about the 28-day option in the light of the House's decision to go for 18 months. I would have preferred 12 months and then 28 days, or two months for the specific reconciliation period. However, the House took a particular view, and it would be quite wrong for us to create, in effect, a period of 21 months on the basis that that somehow underwrote our commitment to marriage.
It would be wrong to think that, by creating an additional hurdle, albeit a time hurdle, we would be bolstering marriage. We would not be doing that, because the reality of human relations and the process as we know it, whether we are lawyers who practise in the field, have been through it ourselves or have friends who have, is that there is only a narrow window of opportunity by which to save a marriage, and that it occurs at the very beginning.
That is why we emphasise this matter, and I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Gainsborough and Horncastle for his role in that. At that stage there is a chance to save the marriage, but beyond that time, the sooner it is brought to an end, consistent with the need to put in place proper, just arrangements for children and finances, the better. Extending that period, which in effect we would be doing if the amendment were passed, does not serve any purpose at all.
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Broxtowefor moving the amendment. It is a free vote, and hon. Members will do as their conscience dictates. I shall vote for the amendment, and I urge my colleagues to do likewise.
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Mr. Roger Freeman):
I congratulate my hon. Friend the
"The 12 month period originally proposed struck the right balance between supporting the institution of marriage, giving couples time to consider their decision to divorce, and allowing them to plan their future lives.
I totally agree with the logic of that argument. I hope that the amendment will be supported.
21 months is too long a period for the couple and their children to be left in limbo. The effect of the extended period would be that people would issue proceedings as early as possible to start the clock ticking, thereby threatening any prospects of reconciliation."
"It has been suggested in some quarters--and, indeed, by the hon. Member for Brent, South--that the introduction of a three-month cooling-off period would necessarily lengthen the process to21 months. However, parties engaged in the process of divorce tend to have taken their first legal advice 12 months or so before initiating the process, so there is no direct correlation between the time at which they first seek advice and the time at which it is decided to start the process of divorce."--[Official Report, Standing Committee E, 7 May 1996; c. 156.]
9.30 pm
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