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6.7 pm
Mr. Tim Yeo (South Suffolk): The voice of what might be described as the producer lobby in the criminal justice system has been well aired this evening, not only by the hon. Member for Swansea, East (Mr. Anderson) but by the hon. and learned Member for Montgomery(Mr. Carlile). I believe that we have allowed policy to be influenced excessively by that producer lobby, in the sphere of criminal justice as in so many others. It is the belief that the views of judges, lawyers and others who derive their living from administering or working in the criminal justice system should always hold sway over the general public's views that put the country in the terrible state that it was in in 1979.
This is the first occasion on which I have spoken in a criminal justice debate. I do so because it is impossible to ignore the profound concern in my constituency about the level of crime--a concern that exists despite the welcome
fall that has taken place over the past couple of years. As we know, it is not just the level of crime but the fear of crime that blights the quality of life, and many more years of falling crime rates will be needed before that fear is removed.
Having represented a largely rural seat for 13 years, I am conscious that the fear of crime has increased substantially in the countryside. There is a strong and widely held perception that police resources, especially manpower, are targeted on towns, and that crime prevention measures such as closed-circuit television are most effective in urban areas. The facts may tell a slightly different story, but perceptions are important, and they take a long time to change.
On behalf of all my constituents I give the warmest possible welcome to the proposals--especially the sentencing proposals--in the White Paper, "Protecting the Public". In particular, my constituent, Martin Crawshay, and his colleagues on South Suffolk law and order committee, with whom I have worked closely for several years, are glad that some of the concerns that were voiced at our meeting last year with my right hon. Friend the Minister of State have been listened to.
Let me express my appreciation of the much-improved Home Office funding of Suffolk police for 1996-97. I observed their excellent and effective work at first hand on night patrol a few weeks ago with officers from Sudbury, under the command of Inspector Mark Cordell.
Well-resourced police, backed up by co-operative and law-abiding members of the public, are only part of a successful strategy to combat crime. We also needs courts whose powers and procedures facilitate rather than impede justice. Once convictions have been obtained, we need sentences that deter criminals and protect the public.
It is his approach to sentencing policy for which my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary deserves particular congratulation. Almost single- handedly, he has reversed the drift of post-war penal policy. For far too long, sentencing policy has appeared to be driven by the interests of criminals, by the capacity of the prison system or by cherished experiments of prison and penal reformers--by anything except the interests of the law-abiding citizen.
The title of the White Paper--"Protecting the Public"--is a welcome departure from past thinking. It acknowledges that one of the most basic duties of the Government is the protection of their citizens. I should like to tell my right hon. and learned Friend that, since some of his proposals on sentencing have come under attack by senior judges and other representatives of the producer lobby, I have not met a constituent of any age, occupation or background who agrees with the judges' criticisms or disagrees with my right hon. and learned Friend's approach. For the first time for several generations, it appears that common sense rather than wishful and woolly idealism is to be the basis of our policy.
Rising crime figures--happily, at least partially reversed but still far too high--suggest that previous sentencing policy provided neither a deterrent to criminals nor protection for the public. It was, and is, high time for an alternative approach that may or may not be successful. I listened carefully to the reservations of my right hon. Friend the Member for Fareham (Sir P. Lloyd). We do not know whether the new approach will succeed, but, my goodness, it is at least worth a try, given the proven and complete failure of the system in the last half century.
Where convictions of persistent or violent offenders are followed by longer sentences, at least the criminals cannot reoffend while they are in prison. A few more citizens may sleep a little more safely in their beds. Indeed, the only criticism that I have heard of the White Paper's proposals that has any resonance is that they were not introduced sooner. It is a matter of surprise and regret that it has taken 17 years of a Conservative Government to introduce this element of common sense into sentencing policy.
I have a few constituents, however, who, despite all their experience, are influenced by opinion polls, and for that reason they are interested in the Labour party's approach to the subject. They will have listened in vain today, as on many other occasions when the subject has been debated, for any expression of regret by the Labour party for its opposition in the House to all the measures taken over many years designed to help the police to track offenders and to maintain order. They will have listened in vain for any expression of regret from the Labour party for its opposition to measures that improved court procedures so that guilty people could be brought to book. They will have listened in vain for any expression of regret by the Labour party for its resistance to measures designed to introduce stiffer sentences.
Fortunately, there is still time for the Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Mr. Michael), to say, "We in the Labour party were wrong year after year to oppose all these measures. We now apologise to people whose homes have been burgled or who have suffered physical violence at the hands of criminals who might have been behind bars if our delaying tactics in the House had not prevented the swifter passage of Conservative legislation on to the statute book."
There is still time for the hon. Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth to say that the right hon. Member for Sedgefield (Mr. Blair), whose approach to sentencing when shadow Home Secretary was indistinguishable in every respect from old Labour, was as wrong on that issue as he was on privatisation, industrial relations reform, tax, public spending and the nuclear deterrent throughout his political career.
Now, at the eleventh hour, in a shameless and unprincipled opportunist attempt to win office, the right hon. Member for Sedgefield claims to believe the opposite of what he argued for over many years--the opposite of what most Labour Members and most members of the shadow Cabinet secretly, or not so secretly, argue for.
Mrs. Elizabeth Peacock (Batley and Spen):
I welcome the proposals of my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary, and I know that many of my constituents and many people throughout our great county of Yorkshire will join me in that welcome.
We now have the toughest Home Secretary and Home Office Ministers that we have had for many years. That is widely welcomed, certainly outside the House, if not in the Chamber this evening. Many people in the United Kingdom want to see the White Paper's tougher measures put into operation as quickly as possible.
The Government have a duty to protect their citizens and to ensure that they can go about their normal lawful business and not be locked up in their homes when criminals are on the loose. Criminals should be locked up in prison, away from decent, law-abiding people.
We have heard much about young people on our streets--even young people under 10. What about parents? No one has mentioned the responsibility of parents to look after their young people, particularly those under 10, who should not be on the streets in the evening.
The punishment should always fit the crime, and persistent serious violent criminals should get stiff sentences. Early release should not be automatic; it should be earned, and I am pleased to see that that is now proposed. Prisons work--of course they work, because they keep people locked up, and when they are locked up, they are not committing more crime.
We have heard much about what Parliament and the Home Secretary should or should not do in making laws. Parliament makes laws, the judiciary implement them, and from time to time there will be discussion between the two. Offenders sentenced to under four years in prison are released once they have served half their sentence, and that cannot be right. Such early release enrages victims and their families, as many hon. Members will understand.
In 1994, 217 offenders were convicted of a second serious sexual or violent crime such as rape or attempted murder. All could have been given a life sentence, but only 10 were. Unless they get a life sentence, they must be released once they have served two thirds of their sentence, even if it is well known that they are still a danger to the public.
Under the Government's proposals, anyone aged 18 or over who is convicted of a serious sexual or violent offence for the second time will automatically get a life sentence. I have listened to what many of the professionals in the House have said about that, but I believe that it is right. Such second offenders would be released only when they no longer posed a danger to the public.
In such cases, the trial judge will determine the minimum sentence to be served by way of retribution and deterrence. The parole board can then decide whether it is safe to release the offender. Individuals who continue to pose a danger to the public would remain in prison--indefinitely, if necessary. All cases need careful assessment. Many criminals are released early, only to reoffend quickly.
The former Lord Chief Justice, Lord Taylor, said recently:
Many of my constituents will welcome the proposal that the average sentence for a third conviction of dealing in hard drugs such as heroin or Ecstasy should be more than four years. Many of us believe that even that punishment is not sufficiently severe, but we welcome tougher sentencing of individuals who not only take drugs but deal in them, and affect the lives of many young people. In the past 12 months, we have seen the deaths of several young people who would be alive today were it not for the availability of drugs on our streets.
The proposal for stiffer sentences for persistent burglars will also be welcomed. While a burglary may only take the form of an entry on a court list, that cannot reflect its effect on the victim--who may be an elderly person living alone.
"I believe public confidence in the system is ended when convicted criminals are seen to walk free from prison after serving rather less than half their sentences, however good their behaviour may have been in the interim."
He was right.
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