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Child Labour
30. Mr. MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what financial assistance he is providing in 1996-97 to organisations working to eradicate child labour in developing countries.[32637]
Mr. Hanley: We give considerable assistance to organisations that adopt an integrated approach to children's issues, but it is not possible to provide the exact amounts spent on the problem of child labour. However, we encourage a range of initiatives and engage in policy exchange.
Mr. MacShane: I thank the Minister for his answer.I find it quite appalling that the British Government are the only Government who cannot put a figure on the help that they provide to eradicate child labour around the world. Is the Minister aware that child labour is increasing and that it is a major international issue? Other countries in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development want the issue to be raised at the International Labour Organisation and to be banned. Will he ask the Prime Minister--who gave a disgraceful reply to a question on this issue last Thursday--not to turn a
Nelsonian blind eye to child labour, but to instruct our officials everywhere to join the campaign to eradicate this monstrous practice?
Mr. Hanley: The hon. Gentlemen is being extremely unfair in saying that we are the only nation that cannot identify how much we spend on the problem of child labour. He has made a wicked suggestion. He knows full well that when we give money to non-governmental organisations we do not necessarily know exactly how much they will choose to spend on the problem of child labour. Under our aid programme, we give generously to a number of organisations. What I have said is accurate: we cannot disaggregate the figures, so I cannot give him an accurate answer about the exact amount that is spent on child labour. I can tell him, however, that we deplore child labour. We deplore any form of child labour, whether the type of labour is bonded--
Mr. Campbell-Savours: Come on.
Mr. Hanley: The hon. Gentleman is becoming impatient to reach his question, which appears later on the Order Paper. He has been badgering me throughout this Question Time because he wants to ask his question. I hope that I may be allowed to answer the other questions; we will then reach his question.
We urge Governments to take all necessary measures to eliminate all extreme forms of child labour, including forced and bonded labour. The UK has urged all countries to ratify the international covenant on civil and political rights, which provides that slavery and the slave trade in all their forms shall be prohibited. I am proud of what the Government are doing about this issue.
Mr. Jacques Arnold:
Far from turning a Nelsonian blind eye to the problems of child labour and of street children, did not my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, when in Rio de Janeiro for the earth summit, specifically visit a home that takes street children off the streets and educates and trains them for a constructive future? [Interruption.] If the hon. Member for Bolsover(Mr. Skinner) did not know that, he should have done so.
Mr. Hanley:
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The Government's record on trying to eradicate child labour in its extreme forms is well known. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point.
31. Mr. Dalyell:
To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what aid is given in respect of preserving the rain forest in Papua New Guinea.[32638]
Mr. Hanley:
Since 1993, we have provided assistance to 13 projects designed to help to preserve Papua New Guinea's rain forests. I will write to the hon. Gentleman with the details of the projects and place a copy in the Library. I should hate to read out all 13 projects because the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours) might not have time to ask his question.
Mr. Dalyell:
Are those projects geared to sustainable development? Do they take account of the appalling river pollution from gold mining?
Mr. Hanley:
We certainly concentrate on sustainable development. Since 1993, we have committed £120,000 to the 13 schemes and £70,000 for NGO projects that are financed partly from the ODA's joint funding scheme. I understand the hon. Gentleman's point about the outflow from the Lihir gold mine and other industrial projects. We must balance sustainable development and timber production with industrial improvements in Papua New Guinea.
National Audit Office
35. Mr. John Marshall: To ask the Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission how many economists are employed by the National Audit Office.[32643]
Sir Peter Hordern (Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission): The National Audit Office employs about 520 staff who have accountancy qualifications or are training for them. Of those, 69 staff have degrees in economics, although none is currently a full-time professional economist. When specialised advice is needed, the NAO would normally use external experts with a relevant economics background.
Mr. Marshall: Would my right hon. Friend be willing to second some National Audit Office staff to the European Commission to tackle the problem of fraud that seems endemic in the operation of the common agricultural policy?
Sir Peter Hordern: My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. I shall certainly convey it to the Comptroller and Auditor General, who frequently consults his counterparts in other European countries and in the European Court of Auditors. It will not be lost on my hon. Friend that one good reason for taking pleasure from the Florence summit is precisely that the Commission will be given more powers to make spot checks, to establish where fraud has been committed and to act.
Mr. Rooker: Would not the NAO's expert staff be better deployed on investigating the Millennium Commission's scandalous decision to site the millennium exhibition at Greenwich, despite the fact that all the financial information available shows that the bid will not work and will waste public money and despite the presence of a suitable alternative in the midlands?
Sir Peter Hordern: I cannot comment on the merits of that matter, but if the hon. Gentleman will write to me or the Comptroller and Auditor General, I am sure that it will be investigated.
Sir Michael Shersby: Is my right hon. Friend aware that last week members of the Public Accounts Committee visited the European Court of Auditors? That was the first visit since my right hon. Friend and his colleagues, who were then members of the PAC, visited the court 15 years ago. We had extensive discussions about fraud and were informed of progress in dealing with that difficult problem. Does my right hon. Friend agree that we should not dilute the
considerable power and influence of the National Audit Office by seconding more than the eight staff who are currently at the European Court of Auditors but that we should continue our discussions with the court to crack this difficult problem?
Sir Peter Hordern: I am quite sure that my hon. Friend is correct. The House is indebted to the PAC and its Chairman for their excellent work in producing the reports. I wish only that public accounts committees in other European countries were as assiduous in establishing where fraud is and in doing something about it.
OVERSEAS DEVELOPMENT
Former Soviet Union
32. Mr. Campbell-Savours: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what plans he has to fund food and distribution projects in the former Soviet Union.[32639]
Mr. Hanley: The know-how fund will continue to give high priority to projects in support of food sector reform. Last year, some 16.1 per cent., or £4.18 million, of know-how fund assistance was devoted to food sector projects. In addition, we have provided more than£1 million in bilateral food aid to countries in the former Soviet Union.
Mr. Campbell-Savours: I hope that the Minister will forgive me for being a little impetuous earlier. Will he set up an inquiry into overcharging by Arthur Andersen for fees and accommodation in respect of the food distribution contract that it held under the know-how fund in Moscow about two years ago?
Mr. Hanley: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman asked that question. Just in case he should ask, I have done some research, which shows that, as far as I am aware, there is no Campbell's Soups factory in the former Soviet Union. He was referring to the Moscow bread project--a large know-how fund operation. Costs were shared with a consortium of private sector companies led by Andersen Consulting. I believe that it was an excellent example of partnership between the Government and the private sector. It trained 634 retail shop managers and provided on-site support. Multiple benefits were derived from the support of the know-how fund. If the hon. Gentleman has any evidence of overcharging and of costs falling against the British taxpayer, I should be most grateful if he would give it to me chapter and verse. I assure him that the matter will be investigated.
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