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12.45 pm
The Minister of State, Department for Education and Employment (Mr. Eric Forth): My hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr. Luff) painted a gloomy picture of the situation facing students who are seeking discretionary awards in dance and drama from local education authorities. He mentioned the research by the National Foundation for Educational Research, which underlies much of his analysis, and the efforts of the Gulbenkian Foundation to get at the facts.
I have no doubt that the findings of those two bodies and of my hon. Friend, which are based on a survey of LEAs, are broadly accurate. They reflect points made to the Department about LEA policies for some time, including those of my hon. Friends the Members for Gravesham (Mr. Arnold) and for Hastings and Rye (Mrs. Lait). There has been a significant decline in the number and level of LEA discretionary awards in the past two years, and it is clear that dance and drama students have been particularly affected.
I take issue with my hon. Friend's suggestion that dance and drama students are uniquely disadvantaged. I am aware from representations by other hon. Friends and interested parties that osteopaths, chiropractors, horticulturists and certain private agriculturists feel similarly disadvantaged, which proves that it would not necessarily be inexpensive to correct the problems identified by my hon. Friend.
Mr. Denzil Davies (Llanelli):
One of my constituents will, after much competition, be attending a London
Mr. Forth:
The right hon. Gentleman makes a clear point that goes to the heart of the debate--that everybody has to make a judgment as to the relative value to society and the individual of different kinds of vocational and other education and training, and the priorities that we award them. That consideration underpins my hon. Friend's case.
I am aware of the views of students, teachers and others directly involved, and acknowledge the level of anxiety that has been expressed.
Interestingly, in discretionary awards--which are so key to what we are considering--as a whole, the numbers rose between 1990-91 and 1993-94. Indeed, the number of awards even in 1994-95, when the sharp decline had started, was still some 66 per cent. higher than the number of further education awards a decade earlier. Spending on further education discretionary awards was almost 60 per cent. higher in real terms than it was a decade before. Again, that shows that we are talking about the ordering of priorities within an overall amount of expenditure, those priorities being determined largely by LEAs. Therefore, the position overall can conceal a much worse situation in individual subject areas. That is what we are talking about today.
It is important--and it is another legitimate area of judgment and debate--that we acknowledge, as my hon. Friend did, that we are talking about discretionary awards, which are at the discretion of local and accountable LEAs. They have to consider applications on their merits, across the whole range of subject matters. The number and level of grants is a matter for those elected LEAs, taking account of their financial situation and their views on and judgment about local priorities.
That is the way the system works. Unless and until there is a significant policy decision by this or any other Government to alter that, that is the context within which we must all operate. LEAs must listen to local views. It is up to everyone concerned--not least my hon. Friends in the Chamber today, individual students, their families and others--to influence LEAs to alter their judgments and priorities if people believe that there is something wrong with them. That is the way to do it.
However, in doing that, a number of questions arise. We must acknowledge that all public bodies, central and local government are operating with tight resources, which means that the focus and the priorities must be ever sharper. It involves ever more difficult decisions being made.
Those who seek additional money, as my hon. Friend has done openly today, ultimately have to say how they would alter the priorities to find that additional money. They also need to show that the number of places available currently, or if enhanced, is justified. They need to ensure that provision is not fragmented. It is essential that they show that the training is of an acceptable standard. In that respect, I am encouraged by the recent accreditation work of the Council for Dance Education and Training, to which my hon. Friend referred. They always need to show that costs are realistic. That is an
important point, especially as dance and drama courses are expensive. All those points must be addressed; indeed, many are being addressed already.
The difference in emphasis between local authorities highlights my point. There is an enormous disparity between what different LEAs do. They have a voluntary code of practice, which we welcome. However, there is an issue about what some people call black hole provision. We shall continue to reflect further on the implications of that and on what changes may be necessary.
I am aware that, in Scotland, responsibility for discretionary awards has been transferred to individual institutions from local government--something akin to my hon. Friend's suggestion. We are continuing to discuss the matter with our counterparts at the relevant Departments. The truth, as my hon. Friend recognised, is that, under the current system and current legislation, there is no scope for the Government to intervene. We cannot substitute our view for that of the LEAs.
Another suggestion has been to ring-fence funding for discretionary awards. LEAs have to take decisions based on their full understanding of the position and the resources available to them. We should not constrain that freedom, as that would involve a major departure in the relationship between central and local government--and, indeed, the role we envisage for local government. Although many people may be tempted to seek such a change, it is more for the medium or longer term. We should pause before going down that route.
My hon. Friend suggested that mandatory awards should be extended to dance and drama students. That is a solution, but perhaps for the medium term rather than for the immediate or short term. It would involve a change in both principle and practice in the approach taken up till now. It would mean either an increase in overall public expenditure or a reordering of priorities within the existing provision.
That leads us to the point made by my hon. Friend about the committee of inquiry into higher education, and the input that the Arts Council intends to make. It is legitimate to consider whether the very wide terms of reference given to Sir Ron Dearing and his committee could encompass the matter that we are debating today--if only because, as the right hon. Member for Llanelli (Mr. Davies) said, certain elements of the provision are already covered by higher education. Therefore, it is legitimate to ask the committee to consider whether that should be broadened or changed in concept or in delivery.
I do not want to pre-empt any of that. So far, we have taken the view that the current system of mandatory awards and loans is intended and designed for full-time undergraduates. It has, until now, been thought to be unsuited to the wide variety of vocational courses and the needs of their students. All that is legitimate territory for representations to Sir Ron Dearing and his committee. It is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to look at all these questions in the light of the changed circumstances since the Robbins review 30 or more years ago.
I want to say a few words about the music and ballet scheme, to which my hon. Friend referred. It was designed to support school-age children of outstanding potential to train for a career in dance and music. At present, the scheme is limited to the Royal Ballet school and four independent specialist music schools. They were selected to participate in the scheme because they are both
pre-eminent in their specialist field, and offer high standards of teaching and learning across a broad and balanced curriculum, including a good range of A-levels.
We are expanding the MBS from September this year, by allocating further aided places to existing schools and by bringing in two new schools--the arts educational school, Tring, Hertfordshire and the Elmhurst ballet school, Camberley, Surrey--both of which will offer ballet places.
The scheme is means-tested. Parental income assessments are identical to the arrangements under the Government's assisted places scheme at independent schools, although the contribution scale is more generous under the MBS, to reflect the fact that it covers boarding costs and the best specialist music and dance tuition available. It is possible that some colleges might be candidates for incorporation as further education institutions, but the criteria are deliberately strict, and I would not wish to raise hopes unnecessarily high.
My hon. Friend mentioned the role of the Arts Council. Lottery proceeds may be a possible solution to some of the problems we are debating. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for National Heritage announced on 1 April a new direction on the distribution of lottery proceeds. That requires the Arts Council to take account of the need to develop the skills, talents and creative abilities of young people.
The council has not yet published details about how it intends to implement the direction. I understand that, before the details are finalised, there will be an opportunity to comment. That is another opportunity in the short term to try to influence the way in which things are moving in that area.
Any suggestion that we should require the Arts Council to target lottery proceeds on dance and drama students should be treated with some caution. This House agreed that the distribution of lottery funds should be carried out at arm's length from Government, albeit in a framework set by Ministers from time to time. The House also decided that the decisions on allocating funds should be taken by the distributing bodies.
These matters are rightly for the Arts Council. However, as my hon. Friend mentioned, it has been decided to establish a group chaired by Mr. Clive Priestley to look into the problems of dance and drama students. I understand that the remit of that group includes the possibility of using lottery money for that and related purposes. That is another avenue of approach open to those who share my hon. Friend's anxieties through which they can try to influence the course of events.
I need no convincing that those involved with dance and drama consider that there is a need for more expenditure, as my hon. Friend has laid out, and I have no doubt about the genuineness of their enthusiasm and anxieties. As I have said, aspects of the student support system need to be looked at, and the higher education inquiry is the vehicle to enable that.
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