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UNESCO
6. Mr. Mark Robinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Employment what consultations she has had with regard to co-operation with UNESCO. [33201]
The Minister of State, Department for Education and Employment (Mr. Eric Forth): None.
Mr. Robinson: Can my hon. Friend confirm that Britain is making full use of its liaison arrangements with UNESCO? What steps has his Department taken to evaluate the educational benefits of rejoining?
Mr. Forth: Yes, but I find it difficult to imagine circumstances in which we could identify a value added, in educational terms, in rejoining the present form of UNESCO--particularly in comparison with the undoubted value of our membership of bodies such as the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.
Mr. Dalyell: What is the particular form of UNESCO to which the Government object? Is it not humiliating that a party which included among its members David Eccles and Edward Boyle--who, as Education Secretaries, were great supporters of UNESCO--continues to adopt a stand-off attitude that brings shame to our country?
Mr. Forth: No. Madam Speaker, if I were to attempt to list the defects that we still identify in UNESCO, it would try your patience and that of the House. For example, we believe that its work lacks a clear focus, there is a danger of its duplicating the activities of other organisations--not least the OECD--we wish to see further decentralisation from Paris into the field, it needs to reduce staff costs, and we have no evidence that if we were to inject £11 million per year into UNESCO we would get any value for money. I am not impressed by the hon. Gentleman's dropping historical names and I doubt that it will impress the House.
Independent Schools
7. Mr. Nicholas Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Employment if she will make a statement on independent schools. [33202]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education and Employment (Mrs. Cheryl Gillan): Independent schools are beacons of choice, diversity and excellence. We want them to flourish. Through the expand- ing assisted places scheme, we are making opportunities at top independent schools more widely available.
Mr. Winterton: Quality and diversity of choice are what parents demand. Is my hon. Friend aware that the cost of a Government-assisted sixth form place in an independent school is, on average, less than the cost of a sixth form place in a state school when one takes into account the capital and administrative costs that are included in independent schools' fees but are not included in the standard spending assessment of local education authorities? Will my hon. Friend give me and the House an assurance that she will continue to promote the assisted places scheme and expand it so that as many children as
possible, from as wide a spectrum as possible, are able to take advantage of what independent schools can provide for this country?
Mrs. Gillan: My hon. Friend makes an extremely valid point, and I am extremely happy to confirm to him and the House that we are committed to the assisted places scheme, which currently offers 34,000 children, more than 80 per cent. of whom come from families with incomes below the national average, an excellent education. We have announced a doubling of the scheme over time, and from September 9,700 places will be available in 355 schools. I hope that the thousands of parents of children who currently benefit from the scheme, or who may benefit from it in future, will notice the Opposition's clearly stated policy--one of their few clearly stated policies--to destroy this ladder of opportunity.
Mr. Hanson: Does the Minister accept that many Opposition Members view with some scepticism the Government's continued commitment to the assisted places scheme while local authorities throughout England and Wales have to reduce expenditure on local education provision because of the Government's revenue support grant settlement? Will she say whether independent schools provide a model for the future, that is, selection and fee paying for schools in the public sector that are currently subject to the document that was produced yesterday?
Mrs. Gillan: Independent schools provide choice and diversity for parents who wish to send their children to them. I accept that the Opposition wish to destroy the scheme. I also accept that they do so on the basis of a false premise. In fact, if one tried to educate all the pupils who are currently educated under the assisted places scheme back in the state system--for example, at the cost per pupil of a Hackney Downs education package--it would cost more than the current scheme costs the Government at the moment.
Mr. John Marshall: Does my hon. Friend agree that the assisted places scheme widens choice and enables those schools to have a wider social spread in their pupils? Is she surprised that the opposition to this scheme comes from a party led by an old Fettesian and whose Chief Whip also went to an independent school?
Mrs. Gillan: My hon. Friend again makes an extremely good point. It is just another example of the Labour party saying one thing and doing another.
Mr. Jamieson: As £350 million of taxpayers' money is being spent in independent schools, can the Minister say why Ofsted has stopped inspecting them?
Mrs. Gillan: Independent schools are currently subjected to a very rigorous regime. The Secretary of State has powers over independent schools, and the hon. Gentleman is simply pursuing a vendetta against a scheme that offers thousands of children from families who could not otherwise afford it the opportunity to get a good education in an independent school.
Primary Schools (Staffordshire)
8. Sir David Knox: To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Employment how much was spent per pupil at primary schools in Staffordshire in the most recent year for which figures are available; and what was the figure in 1978-79, at constant prices. [33205]
Mrs. Gillan: Unit net institutional expenditure on primary and pre-primary pupils combined in LEA-maintained schools in Staffordshire was, at 1994-95 prices, £1,178 in 1978-79 and £1,565 in 1994-95, the latest year for which figures are available.
Sir David Knox: Although the figures show that there has been a significant increase since the Government came to power, that increase falls short of the increase that has taken place in any number of other local authorities. Will my hon. Friend ensure that, when expenditure for the next financial year is determined, Staffordshire will be given an opportunity to make up the ground that it has lost in recent years?
Mrs. Gillan: My hon. Friend has always been a great champion of Staffordshire's education system. No doubt he is aware that both my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I have discussed these matters with representatives from the county: we have had some very helpful meetings. I hope that he will bear it in mind that Staffordshire is set to benefit this year from an above-average increase in its education standard spending assessment--an increase of 5 per cent., or £17.324 million.
Mr. Brian David Jenkins: I thank the hon. Member for Staffordshire, Moorlands (Sir D. Knox) for raising Staffordshire's concern about the SSA. Does the Minister agree with some figures that I have here? [Hon. Members: "Reading."] The Library gave me the figures this morning, and I think that they are fairly accurate. In 1976-77, the SSA for primary schools in Staffordshire was £1,894, and the SSA for secondary schools was £2,520. [Interruption.]
Madam Speaker: Order. Let me help the hon. Gentleman, who has not been in the House as long as some hon. Members and should be granted a little tolerance. At Question Time, hon. Members are not allowed to read or quote.
Mr. Skinner: Except Ministers.
Madam Speaker: Except Ministers. It will be difficult if the hon. Gentleman is going to go through a lot of figures, but will he do his best not to quote and just give the figures? We will help him through today.
Mr. Jenkins: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Rather idealistically, I thought that I could put the figures on the record. I wanted to be accurate about the SSA, because accuracy is sometimes forgotten in the House.
If I moved one of the 800-pupil secondary schools in my constituency into a much deprived area such as Hertfordshire, it would receive an extra £168,000 a year. If the school were moved into Tory Westminster, it would receive more than £600,000 a year extra to educate the
same 800 students. Can I tell my constituents, and other people in Staffordshire, that the SSA is accurate and based on a standard of educational attainment, and is not a Tory-funded fiddle?
Mrs. Gillan:
After that long question, I think that I had better send the hon. Gentleman back to the Library to do a little more research. Staffordshire's SSA is lower because the authority has falling pupil numbers, while numbers are rising nationally. It receives less for additional educational needs, for example, owing to the falling number of families in the county who are on income support. I would expect the hon. Gentleman to welcome that.
Sir Patrick Cormack:
Does my hon. Friend accept that, although the Staffordshire Members of Parliament who spoke to the Secretary of State last year greatly appreciate the sympathetic hearing that she gave and the action that followed, we see it as just the beginning of catching up on other areas? Is it not crucial for Staffordshire to have an even better settlement next year?
Mrs. Gillan:
I thank my hon. Friend for his kind remarks. As I told my hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire, Moorlands (Sir D. Knox), we had an extremely good meeting about Staffordshire, and all that is said about its education SSA will be taken into account.
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