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Madam Speaker: I have no objection to extremist groups of the right or, for that matter, extremist groups of the left, meeting in the House, provided that the room is properly booked by a Member and that the Member remains there throughout. If Members have an objection to extremist organisations coming into the House, perhaps they would refer the matter--or, if they wish me to do so, I will do so--to the Administration Committee if they would like this matter to be looked at afresh.
I do not favour extremist groups--I find them totally objectionable--but if Members invite them into the House and accept responsibility for them, whether they are extremists of the right or the left, I think we should go ahead in the tolerant way in which we deal with things in the House.
Mr. Jacques Arnold (Gravesham):
Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker.
Mr. Robert G. Hughes (Harrow, West):
Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker:
There can be no further points of order. I have made my views known.
Mr. Hughes:
It is on an aspect of what the hon. Gentleman said.
Madam Speaker:
The hon. Gentleman raised a point of order with me. He asked me, under a point of order, for a ruling. I have given that ruling. If the hon. Gentleman has another matter to raise, of course I will listen to it.
Mr. Hughes:
I have no knowledge of that meeting, and of course I accept and agree with your ruling, Madam
Madam Speaker:
The hon. Gentleman has made a most important point. When calling into question another Member of the House, it is crucial that that Member be so informed. What is said may or may not be accurate. I am not aware whether it is accurate in this case or not, but I hope that--[Interruption.] Just a moment. I have not finished. I hope that the hon. Member for Neath (Mr. Hain) informed the hon. Member for Maidstone (Miss Widdecombe). Did he do so?
Mr. Hain:
I did not, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker:
In that case, I reprimand the hon. Gentleman. We have all been here long enough now--the hon. Gentleman since 1992--to know the common courtesies of the House, and I think this should be carried out.
Mr. Jacques Arnold:
Given that you have said that you disapprove of extremist groups, Madam Speaker, how is an extremist group defined in this place?
Madam Speaker:
I cannot define an extremist group, but I can tell the House that at the next election I shall be fighting Militant Tendency and the National Front. I call them both extremist groups, and I am very happy to take them on.
Resolved,
[WAYS AND MEANS] [No. 2]
That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Broadcasting Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise the inclusion of provisions about tax in connection with transfers and other disposals of property, rights or liabilities which subsist for the purposes of or in connection with or are otherwise attributable to the BBC transmission network, as defined in the Act.--[Mr. Wood.]
1 Jul 1996 : Column 553
Orders of the Day
Broadcasting Bill [Lords]
As amended (in the Standing Committee), considered.
Mr. John Maxton (Glasgow, Cathcart):
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I know that it is unusual to query the selection of amendments and new clauses--or perhaps not so unusual. Am I right in saying that the criterion for selection is whether an amendment is in order and within the terms of the long title of a Bill? If an amendment or new clause satisfies that, there is no reason why it should not be selected. Is that right?
Madam Speaker:
That is certainly one criterion for selection, but there are a number of important other criteria, such as whether an issue has already been discussed in Committee. I take them all into consideration.
Mr. Maxton:
In that case I wonder whether you would like to compare new clause 1 with new clause 12. New clause 1 has not been selected; new clause 12 has. While not exactly the same, the contents of at least the first paragraph of each new clause are exactly the same. I should hate to think that one has been selected and the other has not because the latter was tabled by Back Benchers and the former by Opposition Front Benchers.
Madam Speaker:
The hon. Gentleman is trying to tempt me to give reasons for my selection or non-selection. I spent a great deal of time this morning considering both new clauses--indeed, I practically know them by heart. I think that the hon. Gentleman will find that the best debate possible can be held on the new clause that I have selected.
Ordered,
Madam Speaker:
With this, it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government new clause 31--Transfer schemes: successor companies.
New clause 17--BBC pensions--
Government new schedule 2--Transfer schemes relating to the BBC transmission network: taxation provisions.
Government new schedule 3--Transfer schemes relating to the BBC transmission network: successor companies.
Amendment No. 51, in clause 125, page 104, line 36, at end insert--
Amendment No. 255, in clause 125, page 104, line 36, at end insert:--
Government amendments Nos. 10 and 141.
Amendment No. 52, in clause 126, page 105, line 16, at end insert--
That the Broadcasting Bill [Lords], as amended, be considered in the following order, namely, New Clauses, New Schedules, amendments relating to Clauses 1 to 33, Schedule 1, Clauses 34 to 69, Schedule 2, Clauses 70 to 100, Schedule 3, Clauses 101 to 122, Schedule 4, Clauses 123 to 125, Schedule 5, Clauses 126 to 128, Schedule 6, Clauses 129 to 134, Schedules 7 and 8 and Clauses 135 and 136.--[Mr. Wood.]
The Minister of State, Department of National Heritage (Mr. Iain Sproat):
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
'. Schedule (Transfer schemes relating to the BBC transmission network: taxation provisions) (which makes provision about tax in connection with transfer schemes) shall have effect.'.--[Mr. Sproat.]
Brought up, and read the First time.
'--(1) The trustees of the BBC Pension Scheme shall refer to the Secretary of State, before such date as he may specify, the division and distribution of the relevant assets which is to be made for the purpose of making a transfer payment to a pension scheme established for their employees by a person or persons specified in a scheme under section 110 of the Act (the specified person); any such division and distribution of those assets and liabilities shall not be made by the trustees except--
(a) with the consent of the Secretary of State, or
(b) in accordance with an order made by the Secretary of State under subsection (2).
(2) Where any such division and distribution is referred to the Secretary of State under subsection (1), he may by order direct that the relevant assets shall be divided and distributed by the trustees in such a manner, and such a time, as is specified in the order; and any provision of--
(a) the pension scheme established by the specified person referred to in subsection (1), or
(b) any enactment relating to occupational pension schemes, including any enactment relating to transfer values,
shall not have effect to the extent that it is inconsistent with the division and distribution of those assets in accordance with any such order.
(3) When making an order under subsection (2) the Secretary of State shall have regard to the interests of all classes of persons who are for the time being beneficiaries under the scheme referred to in subsection (1).
(4) In this clause, "the relevant assets" means the assets held by or on behalf of the trustees and "the trustees" means the trustees of the Scheme referred to in subsection (1).
(5) An order under subsection (2) shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.'.
'(1A) Any such scheme shall make explicit provision requiring the maintaining during the 25 years following the transfer of transmission services in less populated areas of at least as good a quality as obtained at the time of the transfer.
(1B) In subsection (1A) "less populated areas" means any counties with a population density of below half the average population density of the United Kingdom as a whole.'.
'(1A) Any such scheme shall make explicit provision to ensure equality of access to transmission services in all areas of the United Kingdom, irrespective of population density.'.
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