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Mr. Sproat: The amendments would introduce special arrangements for Wales in the review of prospects for analogue switch-off, but that is unnecessary. The review that we propose--as set out clearly in clause 29--encompasses the whole of the United Kingdom. The key factor in determining a timetable for analogue switch-off will be the availability, in digital form, of the public service channel to all viewers, wherever they may live. The availability of the services to people in Wales will be as important as their availability elsewhere in the United Kingdom. There is no need to make extra, special provisions for any part of the United Kingdom because the whole of the United Kingdom will be considered in the review. That is the short and straightforward answer, but I understand why the hon. Members for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Mr. Rowlands) and for Ceredigion and Pembroke, North (Mr. Dafis), who educated me in Committee on certain aspects of the Bill, have--quite properly--used the debate to raise one or two wider questions.
Mr. Rowlands: I am worried because the ITC is making such a minimum initial demand. Why does not it make a much greater demand and let the operators prove that they cannot reach that demand? The ITC will do the reverse and tell operators the minimum they have to do, but ask them to let it know if they can do more. That is the wrong way round.
Mr. Sproat: The ITC does not agree with the hon. Gentleman, but he is at liberty to suggest that it is not asking enough. I shall draw his comments to its attention, but it has considered the point and believes that its way will be best.
Mr. Dafis: The problem is that if the ITC asked for the use of all the main transmitters and all the relays, it would have difficulty in providing transmission because there is not enough space or frequencies on those transmitters and boosters to provide digital alongside analogue. As soon as analogue is switched off everything will be fine, but some people will not have a digital set and they will not receive any television broadcasts. That is an important gap.
Mr. Sproat: Analogue will not be switched off until an equivalent bulk of the population is capable of receiving digital. I enunciated that principle many times in Committee and it will be the basis for any switch-off.
The hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney asked about channel 35 and its effect on Channel 5. Of course, I am aware that the ITC has proposed that channel 35 should be available to Channel 5. We are considering that point urgently with colleagues at the Department of Trade and Industry and my hon. Friend the Minister for Science and Technology is in his place and will have heard the hon. Gentleman's comments. My hon. Friend the Member for North Thanet (Mr. Gale) said in Committee that he was in favour of channel 35 being used to spread Channel 5 to a much wider area in the south of England and almost every part of the United Kingdom has an interest in the issue, not just Wales. I can assure hon. Members that the issue of the use of channel 35 is one that both Departments are considering closely. We are aware of the attractions of usage by Channel 5 and the other uses to which channel 35 could be put.
The hon. Member for Ceredigion and Pembroke, North mentioned microwave bands and he properly raised that important subject in Committee. We take the subject seriously and the key determinant of analogue switch-off is the availability of the public service channels to all who wish to view them. The means by which they are received is secondary to that. If cable, satellite or other forms of transmission, such as microwave delivery, are practical, I hope that the broadcasters will explore them.
The hon. Member for Ceredigion and Pembroke, North asked what assurance I could give about assistance for future S4C transmission costs. He will know that clause 75 will roll over into the Bill the provision in the Broadcasting Act 1990 that allows my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to provide additional funding over and above the statutory formula funding if she is satisfied that that is necessary with regard to the costs of transmission. Indeed, it will extend the 1990 Act provision by specifying that the additional funding can cover the cost of digital as well as analogue transmission. Clearly, the exercise of any such provision will require detailed discussion with S4C about costs and alternative sources of funding, as the hon. Gentleman mentioned when he quoted from my letter. I cannot give him many guarantees about funding, if any. If S4C believes that there is a case to be made, it should make that case, with the help of the hon. Gentleman and other hon. Members, to my Department.
I hope that, given those assurances, the amendment will be withdrawn.
Mr. Rowlands:
I hope that the worst of our worries and our gloomiest predictions will not come true. If they do, we will be back not only with a new Bill, but with new arguments and new frustrations. In the light of need to proceed with the Bill, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendment made: No. 64, in page 27, line 19, after 'Digital' insert 'the qualifying teletext service'.--[Mr. Sproat.]
No. 198, in page 31, line 2, at end insert--
No. 199, in page 31, line 4, leave out 'by satellite' and insert--
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael Morris):
With this, it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 230, in page 114, line 1, leave out 'secure' and insert 'achieve the result'.
Amendments made: No. 193, in page 29 line 39, at end insert--
' "ancillary service" has the meaning given by section 22(2);'.
No. 17, in page 29, leave out lines 40 and 41 and insert--
' "a Channel 3 licence" has the same meaning as in Part I of the 1990 Act and "a Channel 3 service" means a regional or national Channel 3 service (within the meaning of that Part);'.
No. 65, in page 30, line 9, at end insert--
'"public teletext provider" has the meaning given by section 2(4B);'.
No. 66, in page 30, line 10, at end insert--
'"qualifying teletext service" means the public teletext service provided by the public teletext provider for broadcasting in digital form as a qualifying service;'.
No. 194, in page 30, line 14, at end insert--
' "technical service" has the meaning given by section 22(3).'.--[Mr. Sproat.]
Amendments made: No. 195, in page 30, line 45, after 'sound' insert
'(together with any ancillary services, as defined by section 59(2))'.
No. 196, in page 31, line 1, after 'include' insert--
'(a)''.
No. 197, in page 31, line 2, at end insert
'or
(b) a service where the sounds are to be received through the use of coded reference to pre-defined phonetic elements of sounds.'.
'(5A) The Secretary of State may, if having regard to developments in broadcasting technology he considers it appropriate to do so, by order amend the definition of "digital sound programme service" in subsection (5).
(5B) No order under subsection (5A) shall be made unless a draft of the order has been laid before and approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament.'
'(a) by satellite, or
(b) in the provision of a local delivery service (as defined by section 72(1) of the 1990 Act)'.--[Mr. Sproat.]
Amendment made: No. 200, in page 31, line 29, at end insert--
'(4A) Before making an order under subsection (4) the Secretary of State shall consult such persons appearing to him to represent listeners as he thinks fit.'--[Mr. Sproat.]
Amendment made: No. 201, in page 36, line 2, at end insert--
'(4A) References in subsection (4) to digital sound programme services of a particular character include references to digital sound programme services catering for the tastes and interests of persons living within a specified area or locality.'--[Mr. Sproat.]
Amendments made: No. 202, in page 39, line 9, leave out from 'which' to end of line 12 and insert
'the Authority consider appropriate in all the circumstances for the broadcasting of that service'.
No. 18, in page 39, line 13, leave out 'this section' and insert 'subsection (1)'.--[Mr. Sproat.]
Amendment made: No. 203, in page 40, leave out lines 1 to 4 and insert--
'(2) The circumstances to which the Authority may have regard in performing their duty under subsection (1) include the likely demand for digital capacity by persons providing or proposing to provide local digital sound programme services.'--[Mr. Sproat.]
Amendments made: No. 204, in page 44, line 2, at end insert
'a specified financial penalty not exceeding'.
No. 205, in page 44, line 3, leave out
'a financial penalty of'.
No. 206, in page 44, line 5, leave out 'a financial penalty of'.--[Mr. Sproat.]
Amendments made: No. 207, in page 44, line 28, after 'timetable' insert 'and other proposals'.
No. 208, in page 45, line 18, leave out 'or simulcast radio services' and insert
', simulcast radio services, programme-related services or relevant technical services.
(1A) In paragraph (1)(h)--
(a) "programme-related service" means any digital additional service consisting in the provision of services (apart from advertising) which--
(i) are ancillary to the programmes included in one or more digital sound programme services, simulcast radio services or local or national services (within the meaning of Part I of the 1990 Act) and are directly related to the contents of those programmes, or
(ii) relate to the promotion or listing of such programmes, and
Amendments made: No. 209, in page 56, leave out line 21 and insert--
', an ancillary service or a technical service'.
No. 210, in page 56, leave out lines 22 to 28 and insert--
'(2) In this Part "ancillary service" means any service which is provided by the holder of a digital sound programme licence or by an independent national broadcaster and consists in the provision of any service (other than advertising) which--
(a) is ancillary to programmes included in a digital sound programme service or simulcast radio service provided by him and is directly related to their contents, or
(b) relates to the promotion or listing of such programmes.'
No. 211, in page 56, line 28, at end insert--
'(3) In this Part "technical service" means a service which--
(a) is provided for technical purposes connected with the encryption or decryption of one or more digital sound programme services or digital additional services, and
(b) is of a description specified in an order made by the Secretary of State.
(4) An order under subsection (3) shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.'--[Mr. Sproat.]
Amendment made: No. 19, in page 60, line 17, at end insert 'and (4)'.--[Mr. Sproat.]
Amendments made: No. 212, in page 61, line 22, at end insert--
' "ancillary service" has the meaning given by section 59(2)'.
No. 213, in page 61, line 46, at end insert--
' "technical service" has the meaning given by section 59(3).'.--[Mr. Sproat.]
Amendment proposed: No. 232, in page 113, line 28, at end insert--
'(ee) in the definition of "participant", after "means" there is inserted "(subject to sub-paragraph (5A))".'.--[Mr. Maclennan.]
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