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Sir Fergus Montgomery: The hon. Gentleman confirms what I have said. What I find difficult to understand is that, on 10 May, a seminar was held during which a man called Professor Faulkner let the cat out of the bag and said that things were not quite as we had been told.
I shall conclude my remarks shortly because I know that the hon. Member for Stockton, North (Mr. Cook) is desperate to make a contribution to the debate, but I will first quote briefly from the most recent letter that I have had from my constituent, Captain Ramwell. He writes:
"The Viscount"--
Viscount Goschen, Minister for Aviation and Shipping--
"did not explain to the DFA his reasons for denying their representative a presence on the expedition: he merely informed Paul Lambert of the decision. There were so called reasons given, but they were cosmetic.
I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister has listened to the pleas made by right hon. and hon. Members from both sides of the House because members of the DFA feel very aggrieved at what has happened.
If DOT appointed assessors are not balanced by a DFA assessor then the maritime world will not be able to place confidence in that part of any report that falls under the DOT. This is not to reflect adversely on the DOT appointed assessors; it is to say that the Rule of Bias--as at the Formal Investigation--is being broken.
The first visit was backed by the families' union representatives . . . Far from that being a drawback, it precipitated the re-investigation about to take place."
10.23 am
Mr. Frank Cook (Stockton, North): This is the first contribution made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Jarrow (Mr. Dixon) since he was appointed to the Privy Council. I congratulate him on that elevation, and on being successful in securing this debate.
I have about 100 pages of notes on this subject. It is a constituency interest, as the Derbyshire was built in my constituency. I must say that it was built despite the work force's protestations that the standards of workmanship
imposed on them by management were unacceptable. The Lloyd's surveyor was also moved on because he so consistently and persistently pointed to the technical defects highlighted by my colleagues today. I agree with everything that my colleagues have said and with every tribute that they have paid. To repeat their comments would simply waste time and cut short the time available to me, so I shall concentrate on the facts that others have perhaps not been able to put together.
In this context, I thank the hon. Member for Southport (Mr. Banks) because the inconsistencies that he pointed out provide a good framework in which to place my comments. The hon. Gentleman said that he is an active member of the Select Committee on Transport. In the post this morning I received a copy of Which?, a publication not renowned for a lack of reliability. It states on its front cover, "Not again! When disaster strikes, why are the safety lessons so often ignored?" The accompanying article has the sub-heading, "Too little is done after a public transport disaster to make sure the same thing can't happen again". While the hon. Gentleman might think that the Select Committee is doing a good job, Which? has different ideas. I recommend that he read it.
The hon. Member for Southport highlighted other inconsistencies which deserve further illumination. First, the Donaldson report stated that the views taken of the debris field on the ocean bed were inconclusive. The natural response to that is that they deserve a better and closer examination. Secondly, however, Lord Donaldson said that this must be the last visit to the debris field; in other words, we had better make sure that this investigation is a good one.
I am sorry to labour the point about the MV Derbyshire Family Association's technical advisers, but who found the wreck? It was the technical advisers funded by the unions. Despite protestations to the effect that the Government had made various efforts in this respect, nothing was done other than to go through the motions of an investigation. Indeed, it is on record that informed commentators such as, for example, the Lloyd's surveyor were debarred from giving evidence. They were not invited to do so, despite their consistent appeals to be heard. I suggest that that is a clear indication that the pursuit of the truth was less than energetic.
Photographs of wreckage--specifically a lifeboat--were taken by a passing Japanese tanker. The photographs were then transferred to the owners of the Derbyshire, Bibby Line. Astonishingly, they were then returned to Japan and cannot be found. However, it has been established that the photographs showed clearly that the damage to the lifeboat was consistent with its having been ripped from its davits--in other words, due to a sudden submersion. Why did the photographs go missing? Why are the drawings not available? Why are the technical advisers not being allowed to accompany the expedition to ensure that it is conclusive and exhaustive and that the people who had the nous and the technical know-how to find the wreck in the first place have the opportunity to comment on behalf of the families now?
The Government say that they want to keep the survey independent. They say that the Department of Transport, the Marine Safety Agency and the marine accident investigation branch will also not be represented, creating the perception that it is a completely independent expedition. However, the Marine Safety Agency and the marine accident investigation branch are merely divisions
of the Department of Transport, and the Department of Transport is certainly being represented as it is the Department that has appointed the two assessors and is paying them.
The hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale (Sir F. Montgomery) referred to Professor Faulkner, who was one of the two principal advisers to the Donaldson inquiry. He will be a member of the survey and he has been a principal spokesman. I like Professor Faulkner, but in all my work on the issue, I have been aided by a constituent, Gordon Finlayson, who served as an engineering officer on the Kowloon Bridge and who experienced some of the problems. He and I have written numerous letters, two of which elicited this comment from Professor Faulkner:
Mr. Graham Allen (Nottingham, North):
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton, North (Mr. Cook) for cutting his remarks short. I will do the same to allow the Minister to have 15 to 20 minutes in which to reply, because we wish to hear from him.
This debate shows the House at its best and its worst. It shows it at its best because the issue raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Jarrow (Mr. Dixon) has persistently been raised on the Floor, through the use of every possible parliamentary device, by my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Garston (Mr. Loyden), whose work is an example to us all of the way in which a constituency Member should carry out his job--with great tenacity, using every device in the House.
The debate also shows our weakness, in that Parliament has been unable seriously to hold the Government to account over the past 16 years in order to get a serious and full investigation into what really happened to the Derbyshire. People who care about our Parliament, regardless of party, should pay close heed to that point. Let us get it right this time and let us ensure that in future Parliament has the teeth to ensure that such incidents are investigated thoroughly and quickly, even if the Executive choose to handle the matter differently.
"Both letters show a refreshing breadth of objectivity"--
I am pleased about that--
"compared with what I now regard as depressingly closed minds from the DFA advisers".
It was not depressingly closed minds that set about finding the wreckage field. It was not depressingly closed minds that were persistent enough to take photographs of the wreckage and to bring them back to prove that they were right. Yet now, when we are to have a conclusive, exhaustive and final examination, those minds are suddenly described as depressingly closed.
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