| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Mr. Portillo: I have engaged excellent legal advisers. I am not aware of any problem in that respect and I have great confidence in the Government's title to all the properties that are being disposed of.
Dr. David Clark: My hon. Friend the Member for Pembroke (Mr. Ainger) has made an interesting point. Although I heard what the Secretary of State said, may I ask him to assure the House that the principles that guided the Crichel Down ruling will apply to the freehold sale of the land currently held by the MOD which is involved in the memorandum? Will the Government adhere to those principles?
Mr. Portillo: Ministers are anxious to explain every point. I shall ensure that that point is covered fully by my hon. Friend the Minister of State for Defence Procurement in his reply to the debate.
The Ministry will be the tenant of the new owner and a most exceptional one at that. The Government will retain responsibility for the maintenance of the homes. We shall be renting more than 50,000 properties and we are the most reliable tenant in the country. That enables us to rent at a discount of more than 50 per cent., guaranteed for the first 25 years. At the end of that period, the rents will be renegotiated, taking account of the size of our lettings, our responsibility for the maintenance and our reliability as a tenant. I cannot imagine that any other tenant will be as attractive to the owner and I have no doubt that we shall again be able to secure an excellent deal.
As the Select Committee said, we shall need to do better on maintenance. The chief of the Defence Housing Executive is a professional in housing management and
he will expect his staff too to obtain the proper qualifications. As now, those who occupy the houses will pay their accommodation charges to the Ministry, not to the new owner. What they pay will be set by the independent Armed Forces Pay Review Body as it is now. The review body will take no account of the rent paid by the MOD to the owner.
Service families will continue to enjoy a subsidy that will push their rents well below market levels. That subsidy is deserved because service families move house frequently--each time they are posted. They do not have the choices or the rights enjoyed by civilian tenants, such as security of tenure or the right to buy. Although the pay review body recently increased rents, it increased pay by much more so as to leave service men clearly better off overall.
Sir Michael Shersby (Uxbridge):
By how much?
Mr. Portillo:
In respect of a corporal, for example, rents were raised by £22 a month between April 1995 and December 1996 and pay rose by £66 a month. The occupiers of married quarters will have no dealings with the new owner. They will see few differences from the sale except the better programme of home improvements.
There are two special features to the sale regarding site exchange and redevelopment which have raised concerns. I shall set out the safeguards and propose some changes. Neither proposal applies to service homes behind the wire, and that cuts out 11,000 houses straight away.
Provided that whoever buys the houses initially keeps them and does not sell them on, the owner may propose exchanging the houses that we rent from him for a new site. If so, what he offers must be comparable or better. There are detailed contractual safeguards to ensure that.
We make that comparison by reference to five broad categories backed up by 21 detailed criteria. That ensures that we shall consider a broad range of factors: the distance between the houses and the military facility, the distance to leisure facilities, schools and churches and, of course, the quality of the houses--right down to room sizes.
Sir Jim Spicer (West Dorset):
On comparability, my right hon. Friend will know that a large number of service families accept the need for additional expenditure to improve the properties. In respect of the exchange of properties--for example, if an estate is closed down and sold off--will there be a total guarantee of comparability so that service men and their families are not moved into houses that are inferior in any way to those that will have been improved out of the £100 million that my right hon. Friend mentioned?
Mr. Portillo:
Comparability will apply to houses as they are at the time of the proposed exchange. It will be measured by reference to the five broad criteria and the 21 more specific criteria that I set out just a moment ago. In response to suggestions from my hon. Friends, I have already added an extra provision that job opportunities for families should also be taken into account.
That list of criteria makes it unlikely that many such exchanges will occur. It is a demanding list, it is tightly drawn up and it is binding. If for any reason, however, we cannot agree with the owner about whether our criteria are met, arbitration--based on the rules that we have set--provides a quick and inexpensive way to resolve the issue.
The second special feature allows the owner to propose, after 25 years, that a whole site should be returned to him for redevelopment. At that stage--who knows--that may be the best option from our point of view. The houses will be 25 years older than they are now. The armed forces may no longer wish to be in that location and it may be best to obtain new accommodation.
If, however, we need those houses for operational reasons, we have the power to veto redevelopment. The Secretary of State of the day can rule it out by issuing a certificate. That is the ultimate safeguard. I simply do not recognise the legal advice quoted by the Opposition spokesman as I think it has no basis in fact.
Sir Michael Shersby:
At paragraph 49 of its report, the Select Committee drew attention to the concern of service families that a site exchange might involve a change of school for their children which could affect children who might be in the middle of a GCSE course, for example. Can my right hon. Friend assure me that, in considering the scheme, he has at the forefront of his mind the quality of education for service families?
Mr. Portillo:
Yes, and I shall make a specific point on that issue in a moment.
Mr. Menzies Campbell (Fife, North-East):
May I ask the Secretary of State about arbitration on comparability? If there is arbitration, it will take place only because there is no agreement between the parties. Even if the criteria on which the arbiter is to make his decision are those laid down by the Ministry of Defence, it is at least possible that he will find against the Ministry, in which case any guarantee offered will be only as strong as the Ministry's case at arbitration.
Mr. Portillo:
The hon. and learned Gentleman is being rather petty. We have a clear contract. The criteria are clear, numerous and specific, and have been drawn up by very good lawyers. There are contractual obligations. Nevertheless, of course it is possible that we may have a dispute. If we do, either we can take it to law, with all the expense and unpleasantness that that involves, or we can have the simpler system of appointing an arbiter. I believe that the second is the simpler and better way.
The hon. and learned Gentleman must recognise that over any contract there may be a dispute; no one can guarantee that that will not happen. So what we want is a good way of resolving such disputes. [Interruption.] I seem to have carried the hon. and learned Gentleman with me, and I am pleased about that.
Mr. James Couchman (Gillingham):
My right hon. Friend has said that the houses will be of comparable or better quality, that schools and employment factors will be taken into account, and that an exchange would not require people to travel greater distances. Will he reassure the House that distance will be measured in terms of travelling time to and from the establishment to which the houses are linked?
While my right hon. Friend is answering that question, will he also assure the House that if an exchange were made, the estate given up would not be fragmented into a number of much smaller units?
Mr. Portillo:
There is no question of fragmentation. We would measure distance according to how long it took people to arrive at their destination--that is, the military establishment where they work.
Mr. Portillo:
I want to press on to the end of my speech now, because if I do not it will be an abuse of the time of the House.
As I said, I have valued the suggestions that I have received for improvements. I have already acted on a number, some of which were important to the chiefs of staff and some of which were made to me through Members of Parliament. Today I want to act on three more.
The first two relate to the option for site exchange--the proposal that we might swap one site for another. The Army Families Federation has asked us to include among the criteria for comparing one site with another not only the closeness of schools to the new site but the quality of the schools near the site. Education is of huge importance to parents, and I shall happily add that criterion to the list.
Secondly, there have been calls for consultation with those who might have to move. Such moves will be rare. And of course, moves to new accommodation in mid-posting already occur today, as we improve our use of the houses that we own. Moreover, it must be recognised that an exchange may take a long time to organise, and many families may have moved on anyway between the time of the proposal and the time of the change.
None the less, all that having been said, it is certainly reasonable to ask the occupiers of the day their views on how the two estates compare, judged by the criteria. I undertake that we shall consult them. We shall wish to accept a new site only if it is as good as what we have, or better--and we shall check our view with the views of the service people who have been living on the original site.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |