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Sir John Cope (Northavon): My right hon. and learned Friend's statement is welcome in the circumstances, for the reasons given by my hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Sir J. Spicer), but the acceleration of the existing cull is the immediate problem. On acceleration, will he give special attention to the south-west where, as far as I can see from the figures, we are further behind than are most parts of the country? The problem is made more difficult by the reduction in the price offered for animals sent for slaughter in that way.
Mr. Hogg: My right hon. Friend will recall that I had a very spirited meeting in the south-west some two weeks ago. What we need to do--and we shall be in a better position to do it with the registration scheme--is to identify the areas of greatest pressure. When we have identified them--and I am quite sure that the south-west will be one--it will be possible to give greater emphasis to those areas in the course of making rendering and slaughtering facilities available.
Mr. Peter Hardy (Wentworth): While some areas may suffer more pressure than others, does the Minister accept that the smaller beef farmers in many places face real and urgent crises? I spent several hours on Saturday with a small beef farmer in my constituency. He cannot wait until Christmas if he is to survive. European Ministers may be looking after their farmers, but can we have some guarantee that small beef farmers in Britain will survive the next few months?
Mr. Hogg: The hon. Gentleman is right to focus on the small specialist beef producer who does not have any other products and does not run a mixed farm. That is the point behind his observation, and it is perfectly true. We took account of that to some degree when we targeted the last £29 million, which was part of the July tranche. He will also remember the July package and the various other measures that we have outlined. We have a further £29 million to spend, which I announced on Tuesday last. We shall certainly discuss with the industry how best to give assistance to beef producers. I am conscious of his point, and I shall take account of it in the course of the negotiations within the European Council.
Mr. Robert Key (Salisbury): Will my right hon. and learned Friend bear it in mind that small farmers simply cannot bear the cost of feeding their cattle off the fields? As the acceleration of the scheme is what matters most, he should consider the incineration of carcases in the open, because the bottleneck with the renderers is insupportable. There would be much public sympathy and understanding for that position, in view of our experience with foot-and-mouth disease.
Mr. Hogg: My hon. Friend is right to emphasise the importance of clearing the backlog. That is wholly correct. I hope that he will accept that we are doing our utmost to get that done. On open field incineration, I am
bound to say that I am extraordinarily unenthusiastic about it. There is a range of legal and environmental problems--I suspect that we would be taken to court if we tried it--but my real objection is different. I ask myself what the effect would be on consumer confidence in beef if we were to burn hundreds of thousands of carcases in the fields, which presumably would be shown on television. I very much doubt that that is in the interests of the farming industry.
Mr. Elfyn Llwyd (Meirionnydd Nant Conwy): May I remind the Minister that there are only two abattoirs in Wales that are certified for the purposes of the cull and which serve the whole country? At present, only a trickle of animals is going through. One of the abattoirs is now importing animals from Scotland for slaughter, thereby leaving Welsh farmers with nowhere to take their animals. May I ask the Minister's Department to intervene as soon as possible in that argument, to ensure that Welsh farmers have fair play?
Mr. Hogg: I do not want to deal with the specific points raised by that particular problem, but the hon. Gentleman has correctly highlighted some of the problems that have arisen in Wales. We have been able to address those matters, but the registration will give us a clearer view and will enable us to decide whether further action is justified.
Mr. Richard Alexander (Newark): I should like to give a particularly warm welcome to my right hon. and learned Friend's decision not to kill perfectly healthy young cattle unnecessarily. Is he aware that abattoir capacity for the over-30-month scheme is not being allocated fairly over the whole country? Is he aware that Newark cattle market, for example, is particularly affected? If the OTM scheme is to be accepted, it must be dealt with fairly across the country and people must feel that all is being done for them as fairly as possible.
Mr. Hogg: We try to allocate fairly. Our overriding objective is to clear the backlog. There is a certain amount of rough justice because we are trying to maximise throughput. That is why we have been able to kill 40,000 cattle a week, as we achieved to all intents and purposes last week. The substantially increased throughput will go a long way to meeting the anxiety of my hon. Friend's constituents. I hope that we shall clear the backlog by the end of the year. We shall certainly strive strenuously to achieve that.
Mrs. Gwyneth Dunwoody (Crewe and Nantwich): I find it difficult to reconcile the Minister's remarks with the reality in my constituency. It is clear that the existing cull will not be cleared by the end of the year. It may not be cleared by March. There are already problems with incineration and with renderers, and impossible situations have arisen with far more carcases than anyone can deal with at the moment. The farming community has a legitimate complaint against the Minister for incompetence. Worse than that, the vets in my area are not now able to deal with sick or injured animals. Unless the Minister takes urgent action, the chaos will continue. The sooner he hands over to someone who knows what he is doing, the better.
Mr. Hogg: I am not as pessimistic as the hon. Lady on any of the points that she made. She has overlooked my
announcement last week of £16.6 million, to enable us to increase the slaughter throughput substantially. I am glad to say, as I have mentioned several times already, that we have increased the throughput to 40,000 a week. The hon. Lady's conclusions are therefore mistaken.
Casualties are an issue of concern. If the hon. Lady would care to discuss it further with my Department--
Mr. Hogg:
Again. The hon. Lady is never backward. My colleagues will be happy to discuss the issue further, because we want to address the specific problems that have been identified by right hon. and hon. Members.
Mr. David Harris (St. Ives):
While I appreciate the steps already taken by the Government and the huge sums already earmarked to deal with the horrendous situation, is my right hon. and learned Friend aware of the dire situation here and now in the south-west, particularly the far end of Cornwall? Will he listen to the representations that I have made and those made by my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Mr. Coe) to increase the abattoir capacity in that part of Cornwall? If he does not do that, he will have to reconsider having to resort to open-air burning of carcases, even though one appreciates that that would cause difficulties and bad publicity.
Mr. Hogg:
My right hon. and hon. Friends have taken account of what my hon. Friend has said about the backlog in the south-west. Points made by him and other colleagues caused us to conclude that a further injection of public money--£16.6 million--was justified to clear the backlog. I am grateful for the advice that he has given us on that. I remain cautious about incineration in the fields. I do not want to advocate such a policy, because it would be damaging for the reputation of beef in Britain.
Mr. Nick Ainger (Pembroke):
Is the Minister aware that one reason why his colleague the Secretary of State for Wales is not with him on the Front Bench may be that on two occasions today he has been barricaded in at his appointment by angry west Wales farmers and has had to be rescued by the Dyfed-Powys police helicopter? Perhaps the Secretary of State for Wales now appreciates the anger--particularly in Wales, but presumably throughout the farming community--at the Government's inaction, particularly over the cull programme. Can he give us an assurance today on the current regulation operated by the Intervention Board that prevents former abattoirs--slaughterhouses--with European Union approval from being used for the current cull programme? I have a letter from his colleague the Under-Secretary of State for Wales, the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnor (Mr. Evans), stating that those abattoirs cannot be brought back into the scheme because they are not currently operating. That is utter nonsense, but unfortunately it illustrates only too well the Government's incompetence in handling the programme.
Mr. Hogg:
The hon. Gentleman is just mouthing words and has clearly not been paying attention to what I have been saying in my reply to the private notice question. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales is extremely aware of the difficulties in Wales and has been
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