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10.54 pm
Mr. Anthony Steen (South Hams): I shall not detain the House for long, but I wish to raise a procedural point. I hope that it will not delay the continuation of a highly charged and serious debate that concerns us all.
The order does not contain a compliance cost assessment. The Government say that every Bill that comes before the House should be scrutinised to assess the cost that will have to be met by private business. The Government wish to avoid putting any extra burden on private business.
The concept of assessment in every statutory instrument and every Act was not, understandably, a feature of the Asylum and Immigration Act 1996, except in the sections dealing with employment and the cost to industry in terms of establishing the status of new employees. That was because private business was affected.
I raise this technical point because, on 22 May 1996, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, in a measured and thoughtful speech, said that cost compliance assessment would be considered to be extended to public costs as well as private costs. That meant that every Bill and every statutory instrument would contain a compliance cost assessment that took account of the additional burden on the public purse on the basis of whether more staff and administrative support would be required.
I expected to find in the order a compliance cost assessment of the additional burden on the public purse. It is not there. Will there be no cost to the public purse, or have the Government yet to decide whether to extend the compliance cost assessment to public costs as well as private costs?
Last year, Lady Blatch, the Minister of State in the other place, said that the number of asylum caseworkers had increased eightfold to nearly 800, and that the Government were investing an additional £37 million to provide for even more caseworkers and adjudicators. The order is silent about additional costs. I understand that there may be some, bearing it in mind that the number of decisions taken has increased from 21,000 in 1994 to 27,000 last year. The number of new claimants reached 44,000 last year.
Mr. Neil Gerrard (Walthamstow):
I shall concentrate my remarks on Bulgaria, but first I shall make a few general remarks. When we debated the Asylum and Immigration Bill on Second Reading and in Committee--the issue was taken up earlier this evening--it was said that a list of countries would have no effect on individuals. It is one of the most ludicrous suggestions that I have ever heard. It has been admitted this evening, as it was by the Secretary of State on Second Reading, that a country's inclusion in the list will lead to the assumption that an individual's application is not well founded. It defies common sense to pretend that such a person's application will be treated in the same way as an application from a person whose country is not on the list. It is a nonsensical argument. No one outside the House could conceivably believe it.
I would have a little more respect for those who are advancing the argument if they were honest enough to say, "We are producing a list of countries from which we intend to reject applications." That is what the list is about. I would have more respect for those concerned if they were up front about their intentions. Instead they are engaging in the ludicrous pretence that people from all countries will be treated in the same way.
In any event, any applicant must prove that his or her fear of persecution is well founded.
Mr. Gerald Bermingham (St. Helens, South):
Is not my hon. Friend really saying what was said in "Alice in Wonderland" by the Queen of Hearts: Sentence first, trial later?
Mr. Gerrard:
That sums it up. It is the guilty until proven innocent approach to the problem. The fact that few people from a particular country--for example, Bulgaria--are given asylum does not in any way justify treating applicants from that country differently. It is interesting to look at what has happened with Bulgaria over the past few years. One person was granted asylum in 1992; there were none in 1993, none in 1994, but five were given exceptional leave. There were none in 1995, but one was given exceptional leave.
The number of applications has been increasing. Why? Those figures do not seem to suggest that anybody could conceivably think that applying for asylum is a soft touch if a person comes from Bulgaria. They are almost all being refused, anyway. But the numbers are going up, and that seems to suggest that something must be happening in Bulgaria to provoke people to apply for asylum.
Anyone who has read the country report--even the Home Office country report--or any human rights organisations' papers on Bulgaria will know of the way in which Roma in particular but also other ethnic minority groups suffer. The Home Office country assessment talks about local inter-ethnic tensions; about widespread resentment of Roma; and about discrimination and violence against Roma, which continue to occur.
It does not, of course, mention the fact that Bulgaria is one of only five countries in the Council of Europe that refused to sign the framework convention on the protection of national minorities. It is not the strongest of frameworks, but Bulgaria refused to sign it, and said that it would be against its national interest.
Human rights organisations, such as Amnesty, that look at Bulgaria quote many examples: for example, in April 1993, an assembly of Macedonians was interrupted by the police and people were beaten. In 1994, the robbery of an inhabitant of a small town sparked retaliations against Roma in the area and 20 families' homes were ransacked and destroyed. There are many documented examples of discrimination against such minorities and many reports of police violence and brutality--again, particularly against ethnic minorities in Bulgaria. At the very least, that calls into question the ability of the authorities to provide protection.
Refugee status does not depend on persecution by the state. The United Nations convention makes it absolutely clear that where discriminatory or offensive acts are committed by the local populace they can be considered as persecution if they are tolerated by the authorities or if the authorities refuse to provide protection. That is precisely what happens to people of Romany origin in countries such as Bulgaria.
The Home Office country report goes to great lengths about what has happened to the legal system in Bulgaria, but again the United Nations says that the laws of the country of origin, but particularly the manner in which they are applied, will be relevant. The fact that there is a law that says that there should not be discrimination, but that it is not applied, should be taken into consideration.
Mr. Michael Stephen (Shoreham):
I am grateful for the opportunity, which was denied me by the hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr. Straw) in the course of his speech, to reply to his rude and, frankly, ignorant response to the point that I put to him. He dodged responding to the substantive issue by relying upon a debating point which, when he reads Hansard tomorrow, even he will see is a false point.
The hon. Gentleman argued that the order deprives an applicant of a hearing of his case on the merits. He accepted or maintained, I care not which, that the presumption raised by the order was a rebuttable one. If the presumption is rebuttable, the applicant will have an opportunity to rebut it. In other words--let me spell it out to the hon. Gentleman--an applicant will have an opportunity to put his case and have it heard on the merits. Therefore, how can the hon. Gentleman possibly argue that the order deprives an applicant of a hearing of his case on the merits?
If the applicant happens to be an Ahmadi from Pakistan, I have no doubt that he will say, "I am an Ahmadi from Pakistan," and I have no doubt that he will make the kind of arguments that we have heard this evening. Those arguments will be listened to. The case will be decided on its merits. That will probably also apply to anyone who says, "I am a Romany from Bulgaria." It is obvious that the order speeds up the process of dealing with asylum applicants, particularly paragraphs 2 and 3.
In the speeches of Opposition Ms--no doubt we shall be regaled by more of them in the course of the debate--the attitude seems to be that anyone who comes from a country whose standards are lower than ours in the United Kingdom should have asylum. That argument applies to just about every country in the world.
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