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Mr. Elliot Morley (Glanford and Scunthorpe): I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman has introduced party politics, because he knows that many of the measures that he has been advocating tonight have been supported by the Opposition. That is particularly true of the calls for greater control over our own waters and giving inshore boats--which often fish in selective, environmentally friendly ways--some positive help in terms of quota allocation. Whether the hon. Gentleman likes it or not, many of the reforms can be brought about only through the European Union and the Commission. The way to do that is to argue constructively, seek allies and advance progressively--not to stand on the sidelines without participating in the debate.
Dr. Spink: As we would all expect, the hon. Gentleman comes forward with warm words. But my constituents, particularly my fishermen, all know that the Labour party's instincts are to surrender everything to a federal Europe, not to protect and defend Great Britain--the Conservative party's instincts.
My hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and I support my hon. Friend the Minister in seeking tough reforms of the CFP. The Government's policy of reform is absolutely correct and they are to be congratulated on it. But if progress with Europe is not made to the advantage of our fishing communities, we cannot stand by and let them sink--we cannot desert them. We may ultimately have to consider the example of the Norwegians who, outside the CFP, have a workable system based on national control within their own 200-mile limit. We could then apply our own conservation regime and control all vessels that fish our waters. That would require a special derogation from the free movement provisions of the treaty of Rome--notably article 52--at the current intergovernmental conference. I am delighted that that is high on the Government's list of priorities.
We all know that there is a serious question mark over the quality and stringency of control of some fishing boats. There is simply no effective catch data verification or control by some member nations. That cannot be allowed to continue.
The CFP rules are becoming more and more complex and are effectively criminalising an honourable group of British workers. That cannot be allowed to continue. We could maintain sensible co-operation with Europe, but a policy of equal access may simply prove unworkable. Europe itself is not working. What could be more senseless than paying huge subsidies to produce and store food, then destroy it, or to risk life to catch good fish, only to throw it overboard, polluting our seas? We need strong Conservative leadership and common sense that puts Britain first--the sort of leadership that my hon. Friends the Minister and the Members for South Hams and for Basildon have given on this fishing issue.
On 20 August, the excellent Canvey Island Times reported my hon. Friend the Minister's visit to our town. It stated:
Mr. David Amess (Basildon):
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point (Dr. Spink) on allowing us the opportunity to debate these important matters. There is little doubt that he has been a champion of the local fishing industry. On 27 March I had the opportunity to raise this subject in another Adjournment debate. As a result, my hon. Friend the Minister agreed to attend what has been proved to be an historic meeting, which took place in July at Beambridge yacht club. My right hon. Friend the Member for Southend, West (Mr. Channon), my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point and I were present, together with my hon. Friend the Minister.
My hon. Friend the Minister met a whole number of people and many famous families whose livelihoods depend on the cockle industry and on fishing generally. He learnt at first hand just how important fishing is to our particular part of Essex. Many of those fishermen have done much for this country, especially during the second world war.
It was a delight to myself and other colleagues that my hon. Friend the Minister attended the meeting bearing gifts. He listened very carefully to what the representatives had to say, and I believe that on every count he met their wishes. There is just one outstanding subject. He will recall looking at the Thames estuary and listening carefully to the points about the need for some extra funding for dredging the estuary. I wonder whether he has had time to consider that further.
Obviously, Conservative Members are very concerned about proposals to reduce the United Kingdom catch. My hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point was entirely right in what he said about the Labour party's stance on this issue. There is great duplicity on the subject. I very much hope that at the November meeting Britain will hold its ground and give no truck to the bureaucratic nightmare of a regional fishing policy, as advocated by the Liberal Democrats. The proposals would mean a veritable jungle of committees and bureaucracy, overseen by Brussels, with Britain allowed no say in the running of our industry.
My hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point and I hope to visit Europe before Christmas to meet the Fisheries Commissioner.
Mr. Anthony Steen (South Hams):
It is a waste of time.
Mr. Amess:
I do not accept that. My hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point and myself intend to meet the lady, and we shall do our very best to put the case firmly. I thank my hon. Friend the Minister for what he has done so far and for what he will do in future.
Mr. Anthony Steen (South Hams):
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point (Dr. Spink) for allowing me to make a few chosen comments in this
Unfortunately, whether in the south-east or the south-west, millions of pounds are lost through quota hoppers. Of the UK's 20,000 fishermen, 4,000 are Dutch and Spanish. That may seem double Dutch--it is certainly hard to understand. It is by far the single most important issue for UK fishermen--it remains central to the common fisheries policy for all fishermen, whether they come from the south-east or the south-west. Quotas were given to individual countries by the European Union and were never intended to be tradeable commodities.
The UK fishing industry leads the way with technical conservation methods and in general has a good record of compliance with EU regulations, but every time Spanish fishermen are caught breaking the rules by trawling with the wrong net size or landing undersized fish while flying the red ensign, it is the British fishermen's reputation that is tarnished.
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Minister of State and the Minister for Agriculture for their unstinting commitment to resolving the quota-hopping problem once and for all. I thank the Minister of State personally for coming to my constituency several times--he is always most welcome.
Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Tony Baldry):
I am glad that my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point (Dr. Spink) decided to focus attention on the concerns of the fishing industry in the south-east, because it gives me the opportunity to report to the House on the talks and meetings that I have had with fishermen from the area in recent months. If, in the time available, I cannot respond in detail to the various points raised by him and my hon. Friends the Members for Basildon (Mr. Amess) and for South Hams (Mr. Steen), I shall of course write to them.
My hon. Friend the Member for Basildon was successful in securing a debate in March in which he set out the problems facing Essex and Thames estuary fishermen in particular. In that debate, he invited me to visit Leigh-on-Sea. I am pleased that I was able to take up his kind offer. In July I was pleased to meet my right hon. Friend the Member for Southend, West (Mr. Channon) and my hon. Friends the Members for
Basildon and for Castle Point. I was also able to combine that visit with a long-standing invitation to meet the inshore fishermen of Aldeburgh.
I found both visits extremely valuable, as they enabled me to have an additional insight into the operation of the non-sector fleets. I shall explain to the House in more detail what I mean by non-sector fleets and the problems that local fishermen have to face. Of course, I am determined to continue to meet fishermen from around the country. Indeed, in the coming months I shall have further talks with fishermen at ports as far apart as Harwich and Rye.
As my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point will know, and as I have made clear many times, my only concern is to secure the best possible deal for UK fishermen. That should be apparent from the outcome of yesterday's Fisheries Council in Luxembourg. A great deal of time was spent discussing technical conservation measures and the Commission's proposals for further reducing the size of our fleet. I made it clear that I could only accept conservation measures that were sensible and realistic and would command the respect of the UK fishermen. I also left fellow Fisheries Ministers in no doubt that I could not accept any further compulsory reduction in our fleet unless and until there was satisfactory progress on the issue of quota hoppers.
We have tabled our proposals before the intergovernmental conference and, as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister emphasised to other Heads of Government recently in Dublin, the national quota system in the common fisheries policy is designed to balance the need for fish conservation with a secure benefit for a member state's fishing community. There is a burning sense of injustice in Britain not only among fishermen but among people in general that the system of national quotas is being systematically undermined. We are determined to put that right.
As my hon. Friend the Member for South Hams said, it is crazy that nearly a fifth of the quota designated for UK fishermen is being taken by foreign owners of foreign vessels that are foreign crewed and foreign skippered. It is a crazy situation, and it cannot be allowed to continue. Even more crazy--as my hon. Friend the Member for South Hams said--is that those vessels are purportedly flying our flag, masquerading as UK fishermen when they are anything but UK fishermen. They are not even landing their catch in the UK, and bring no economic benefit to us whatsoever.
I think that all hon. Members agree that the common fisheries policy is far from perfect. As the House knows, however, the answer is not to run away from it but to work for improvement to make the policy effective and fair. I am determined to do that. Fish are a common resource that do not respect national boundaries. We conserve that resource by working together within a common framework.
We are determined to maintain the restrictions on fishing within our six and 12-mile limits. Those restrictions are effective and fully supported by the UK industry. Under the CFP, only UK vessels can fish within six miles of our shore, and that includes most of the inshore fishing industry in the south-east.
There are also restrictions on access by foreign vessels within our six to 12-mile limits, so that, off
Essex for example, only French and Belgian vessels--because of historic rights to access--can fish within those limits alongside our own fishermen. We are fully committed to maintaining the restrictions on access by foreign vessels within our six and 12-mile limits.
I am conscious that fishermen in Essex and the south- east are facing a difficult and challenging future. I am also aware that there is continuing unease about the way in which our quota management arrangements work. As I made clear to the House last March, we have sought to operate arrangements that are fair and equitable and to encourage fishermen, through producers' organisations, to take on daily responsibility for the management of quota allocations.
Over the past eight years, many fishermen have opted to join or form producers' organisations. There are now 19 such organisations, and together they account for more than 90 per cent. of the uptake of our quotas. They also represent some 60 per cent. of our over 10 m fleet, and a much bigger proportion of those vessels that actively target quota stocks.
At the same time, I realise and fully appreciate that the majority of fishermen from the south-east are not covered by the network of producers' organisations--that they are non-sector fishermen. When I visited Leigh-on-Sea in July, some fishermen expressed considerable interest in setting up a producers' organisation to manage quota allocations and to market fish caught by Thames estuary fishermen. I welcome that, and I am pleased to learn that initial approaches by local fishermen in Essex who want to form a producers' organisation have been made to the Ministry. I can assure the House that we shall do everything we can within the framework of the European Community's marketing regulations to advise those fishermen and to assist that initiative.
I must also emphasise that we have taken important steps over the years, and that we will continue to do so, to safeguard the position of those who continue to operate as non-sector fishermen. First, monthly catch limits are set in consultation with representatives of non-sector fishermen, and every human effort is made to keep fisheries open throughout the year.
Secondly, producers' organisations that want to manage quota allocations must do so for all fish stocks. That means that, in managing the non-sector allocations, the fisheries department is able to focus exclusively on the interests of fishermen who are not members of producers' organisations. Officials in my Department are continually seeking to protect the interests of non-sector fishermen, and to ensure that those interests are looked after fairly.
Thirdly, we have introduced underpinning for stocks of particular interest to non-sector fishermen, including North sea sole and cod. Those arrangements have operated for the past two years, and this year, for example, they have resulted in non-sector fishermen receiving an extra 691 tonnes of cod, which is equivalent to 38 per cent. of their allocation.
From my discussion with fishermen, there was a clear desire that the arrangements for underpinning should be
extended to other fish stocks. The quota management arrangements for 1997 are due to be discussed in Edinburgh at the beginning of November with representatives of all sides of the industry. I intend to propose that underpinning should be extended to North sea whiting and plaice, which are the remaining two quota stocks of particular interest to Thames estuary fishermen.
Underpinning also operates for the under 10 m fleet. For the past three years, those fishermen have received a guaranteed share of the UK's quota irrespective of whether they have been able to catch their full entitlement. There may, for example, have been bad weather or fish stocks may have failed to turn up on inshore grounds.
To further safeguard the interests of the inshore fleet, we amended our licensing rules earlier this year to check the future growth in the number of powerful vessels just under the 10 m limit. I am also pleased to report that, so far this year, it has not been necessary to close any fishery to the small inshore fleet, including the North sea sole fishery. I hope that I have demonstrated that within the tight quota constraints set by the Community and the need to take effective measures to conserve fish stocks, the interests of south-east fishermen are not being overlooked. I am determined to ensure that they are treated fairly.
May I reassure my hon. Friend that the track records of decommissioned vessels in the membership of producer organisations are not, in fact, retained by the POs. The track records of all decommissioned vessels, irrespective of the group to which they belong, are shared among the remainder of the fishing fleet. Thus when a PO vessel is decommissioned, the non-sector is able to benefit from its track record. Indeed, I am told that, over the years, this arrangement has generally favoured the non-sector because it has obtained a share of the usually larger track records of decommissioned PO boats.
In our consultations on the present decommissioning scheme, we invited comments on the proposal that fishermen should be allowed to retain the track record from decommissioned vessels, with a percentage of those track records being set aside for the non-sector. I have to say that, alas, the consultation exercise revealed little support for this proposal from fishermen in the south-east or from any part of the industry, including the non-sector, with the result that it was not included in the final scheme. However, as I made clear at Leigh-on-Sea, I am always ready to listen to further representations. I appreciate the frustrations of the non-sector and of Essex and south-east fishermen in particular. If we have any future decommissioning round and if the fishermen wish to put forward further proposals, I shall be very happy to consider them.
I fully appreciate the importance of the sole fishery to fishermen within the Thames estuary. Last year, sole accounted for just under one third of the value of the total fish landed into Essex ports. The remainder of their earnings comes from other stocks such as cod, bass, plaice, sprats, skate and rays. Such diversification
is essential; fishermen must avoid becoming over-dependent on a single stock.
My hon. Friend referred to the possibility of exempting inshore fishermen from the constraints of quota management. Within the present discussions in the Community on the next round of decommissioning, there is much talk about exempting coastal fishing boats--some Fisheries Ministers yesterday gave figures as high as 14 m--from the constraints of quota management. That will have to be discussed within the whole context of future fisheries management.
I fully understand the frustrations of, for example, Aldeburgh fishermen. Although they are fishing just off the Suffolk coast and can go out only when the weather
conditions are fine, they are caught up in the same quota management conditions as large North sea trawlers are.
"Leigh and Canvey fishermen said they were pleased with their meeting with the Minister".
They told me so as well. They trust the Minister. They trust the Government to defend their interests. They trust our instincts. Their trust is well placed.
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