House of Commons Hansard Debates for 16 Oct 1996 (pt 3)

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman has been in the House for many years. He really must relate his remarks to the Northern Irish cattle coming through the Glasgow meat market; otherwise, he will be out of order.

Mr. Martin: I apologise, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Perhaps I should have explained that the Glasgow meat market was built not only to deal with home stock, but to cope with the Irish market. Irish cattle also come through that market, and that is why I am participating in the debate.

I refer to the point raised by the hon. Member for South Down about the crisis in the rest of the United Kingdom. I am often reminded by some of his colleagues in the Ulster Unionist party that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. Irish farmers and the Glasgow meat market have been affected by the BSE crisis.

I stress again that some people are making an awful lot of money out of the crisis. I shall not say too much about that, but some of those on the so-called liaison committee are set to make a financial killing. I am not suggesting that they are dishonourable, but I am concerned that they may have a conflict of interest.

The Scottish Office has put such pressure on the cattle markets, that, as we have discussed in the House, there is concern about the welfare of animals which have to wait in trucks for hours on end. I hope that the Minister will take my concern to the Scottish Office, that, unless some of the smaller abattoirs are reopened, cattle will continue to suffer while they are waiting for slaughter. No one in the House or the country wants to see that.

Finally, we have to consider the head boners in the meat industry. They do not have a very pleasant job, but they have worked hard, honestly and in good faith. The Scottish Office told them to cease business, yet they have received not a ha'penny in compensation. Some of those men and women worked for 20 or 30 years in that industry and received no complaints about hygiene or any

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other aspect of their work. They were told to cease trading, and some of their mortgages and businesses have been threatened. Business in that industry is now non-existent.

If Ministers can tell the Tory party conference that the farmers will receive compensation, they should consider other people who are involved in the meat industry. Let me say, with no disrespect to the farmers, that others in the industry are also losing financially.

10.18 am

Mr. William Ross (East Londonderry): We have listened to two very interesting speeches. I assure the hon. Member for Glasgow, Springburn (Mr. Martin) that those of us who take an interest in the cattle industry understand that its effects extend far beyond the farm gate. I am sure that, like me, he is grateful to the hon. Member for South Down (Mr. McGrady) for raising this matter. It gives us a chance to express yet again concerns that we all have about the industry, the many ramifications of which were totally unforeseen until the disaster struck.

The hon. Member for South Down has rehearsed the concerns fairly comprehensively, and therefore made it easier for those who follow him to cover the matters on which he has given details. There are also, however, one or two matters that he missed.

As he pointed out, Northern Ireland exported 80 per cent. of its beef. A considerable amount of that entered Great Britain and, to some extent, Northern Ireland was caught by the ban on British beef. It seems that the Irish Republic has escaped because it is a separate country, yet it has an incidence of BSE that must be extremely worrying to Mr. Yates and members of the Irish Government.

The British beef market was immediately depressed as soon as Northern Ireland beef entered it--such beef had no place else to go. If we resolved the problem of Northern Ireland beef, it would therefore relieve the downward pressure on the entire British beef market and tremendously benefit all of us--not least the constituents of the hon. Member for Glasgow, Springburn.

Northern Ireland can, of course, meet the accredited herd requirements much quicker than the rest of the United Kingdom, but even if the European Community accepted the Government's accreditation scheme, it would still demand that the UK abide by the Florence agreement. The Government are trying to shut their eyes to this real and major problem, but I do not think that it will go away.

In order to comply with the scheme, Northern Ireland needs to slaughter about 2,000 cattle in 790 herds--not very many cattle per herd. On top of that, there is a backlog, to which the hon. Member for South Down referred, of 90,000 cattle, comprising 40,000 30-month-plus cattle and perhaps 50,000 cull cows, which is a fast-developing problem for farmers in terms of feed, shelter and wet land. Land is very rapidly becoming wet through.

If Northern Ireland could resume its exports beyond the shores of the nation, it would immediately benefit its farmers and the general economy there, and, as I have said, reduce the depressant effect of Northern Ireland beef on the Great Britain market, which would relieve problems and give a tremendous lift to the income of Great Britain beef producers.

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The Government seem to be taking the view not only that is the Florence scheme atrociously expensive--which it is--but that it is unnecessary on any scientific grounds. I happen to agree with them. Perception is the determining factor. I fear that perception will be the determining factor in another matter that will come before the House this afternoon.

The Government believe that, by removing the 20 to 25 per cent. of beef in the market by the methods that have been and are presently deployed, a balance will be created between production and consumption, and therefore nothing more will be needed to be done. That may be true, but even if it is, there is a great chasm between where we are and that happy outcome. We need a bridge to get from where we are to where we have to be.

What needs to be done to resolve the problem in Northern Ireland? I speak about Northern Ireland not only because it is the subject of this debate but because of the ramifications it has for the rest of the kingdom. If Northern Ireland can clear the backlog, it can reach compliance with the accredited herd scheme standards. That means slaughtering the 2,000 cattle in Northern Ireland, which is proving to be the road block.

We should not be mistaken about the fact that the EC will use the fact that those 2,000 cattle are not slaughtered as a road block to reopening the export market for Northern Ireland cattle. That tiny number of the total national herd must be taken out of the equation as quickly as possible. If that is done, we will be able to export beef not only to Great Britain but--I hope--much further afield.

The hon. Member for South Down also referred to the problem of flagged holdings, which I agree must be addressed and resolved urgently. If it is not resolved, supermarkets will try to outdo each other in the purity of the products on sale. That will simply mean that they will not be willing to sell beef from a flagged holding. That would be a serious marketing problem. It is not very often mentioned, but it must be borne in mind. The Government must sort out this crazy system of flagging holdings rather than cattle.