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Mr. Rifkind: If we can apply consistency, I do not mind, but until we refer to the United States as the former British empire, we should refer to those countries as what they are. Ukraine is eastern Europe; Russia is eastern Europe; Poland, Hungary and the other states are central Europe; and that geographical designation would have a political impact as well as being a more accurate reflection of their situation.
Mr. Menzies Campbell (Fife, North-East): What about Scotland?
Mr. Rifkind: That is western Europe--I hope that that is not controversial.
I want to report briefly to the House on the intergovernmental conference, which continues to have serious and important deliberations. The timing is now pretty clear: at the Dublin summit later this year, the presidency will produce draft conclusions, not with a serious expectation of immediate agreement but to focus the debate more specifically on the outstanding issues, because only when one addresses texts does one know where each country stands and what are likely to be the important areas of difference. There is now total agreement that the Amsterdam summit of June next year will be the end of the intergovernmental conference. Britain agrees with that, and I believe that it is the view of all the member states.
Important progress is being made on issues such as the future of the Western European Union; there is not yet final agreement, but there is broad acceptance of the way in which we are heading on such matters. The important question of the relationship of WEU to the European Union remains, and I believe that our determination that the one should not be subordinated to the other will be reflected in the final conclusions.
On common foreign and security policy, on the role of national Parliaments and on the subsidiarity protocol, good progress has been made, and over the next few months satisfactory conclusions will be reached. Some issues will be more difficult to resolve than others, but I believe that it is right to draw attention to those on which progress is already being made.
Mr. Jim Marshall (Leicester, South):
The Secretary of State mentioned the Western European Union. As he well knows, its enlargement is being discussed. How would that future enlargement be affected by the proposed enlargement of NATO to include the central European countries of Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic?
Mr. Rifkind:
There has been a foolish assumption in certain quarters--it is not being pursued now--that a
Mr. Ian Bruce (South Dorset):
Will my right hon. and learned Friend say a little more about the European Court? Many of my constituents know that, if the courts in this country do something that the Government believe to be wrong, the Government can introduce a Bill and change the law. My constituents are concerned that no power in the land--not Westminster and not even the Council of Ministers or the European Parliament--can reverse a European Court decision. Can we have an assurance that European Court decisions that politicians do not believe to be right can be reversed using European Community mechanisms?
Mr. Rifkind:
The European Court was created by the treaty and can therefore be changed by treaty amendment. The intergovernmental conference provides an opportunity to make certain changes. The United Kingdom has published its proposals--I shall not go into them today, but they are available to the House. That is the way in which one deals with any such situation.
The single most important issue for the intergovernmental conference is only beginning to be addressed now--flexibility. We must consider the extent to which groups of European Union states will be able to act together, when not all member states wish to do so, and still have access to European Union institutions. If they do not want access to EU institutions, there is no problem, as the Schengen agreement has shown. Any group of countries can join together on their own initiative and take certain actions jointly. However--this is a fundamental British position--access to European Union institutions for those in such agreements is acceptable only if all 15 states agree. We believe that not for theoretical or ideological reasons, but because access to European institutions means the involvement of the European Commission, the European Court of Justice and the budget. That is not acceptable unless all 15 agree.
Such agreement is possible, as with the Europol convention. The issue was whether countries under the Europol convention should have access to the European Court of Justice. The final agreement was that the other 14 states would have access to the European Court of Justice on Europol matters and the United Kingdom would not. That arrangement is acceptable because it was agreed by all 15 member states.
I do not suggest that we or any other country have thought out all the implications of flexibility. It is a fundamental issue and much more work needs to be done in this country and elsewhere if we are to move in that direction. No one doubts that the European Union of the future will be flexible--that is unavoidable and such flexibility already exists to some extent. The issues are
how the system will work, what the institutional implications will be and how the interests of minorities as well as majorities can be properly safeguarded.
Mr. Harry Barnes (North-East Derbyshire):
Will the Secretary of State confirm that he has just said that the way to change a European Court decision that people find offensive is by altering treaties? Cannot European Union regulations and directives be altered under current treaty arrangements? If the other method is the only one available, we are really into something rather tight.
Mr. Rifkind:
That is a fair point. Part of the problem has been that some directives have not been properly drafted and have been insufficiently precise about what is required. That inevitably gives the European Court the opportunity to make law as well as to interpret it. There is a need for greater precision, clarity and care in the drafting of directives and regulations. I am saying to those who criticise the powers of the European Court that those powers are created by treaty and can be amended only by amending the treaty. That is a straightforward point.
Mr. Bernard Jenkin (Colchester, North):
I commend my right hon. and learned Friend's caution on flexibility, but given that we are all under the single jurisdiction of the European institutions, which tends to be an enlarging and deepening jurisdiction, if we allow some member states to take that jurisdiction even further just for themselves, what protection will we have against that jurisdiction extending to the other member states? That is particularly problematic, given that we have a single market with freedom of trade, free and open borders for workers in the European Union and a free transfer of rights between individuals of member states. Is it not increasingly becoming impossible to compartmentalise jurisdiction in some states and not others, unless those states have a constitutional safeguard to prevent the court from enlarging its jurisdiction unilaterally?
Mr. Rifkind:
I have considerable sympathy with my hon. Friend, who sums up an important part of the challenge that we face. However, we cannot duck that challenge. We already have flexibility and it will increase. The challenge for all member states is how to manage that flexibility--what degree of flexibility should be permitted with access to European institutions and how to prevent the unacceptable consequences to which my hon. Friend referred.
I do not claim that we have all the answers today. That is precisely why I said that more work needs to be done and that our final judgment on these matters will be determined and not just influenced by whether we find a satisfactory way of managing them. We cannot avoid the issue. Flexibility already exists and is bound to increase as the European Union enlarges. The real challenge is not whether we deal with it but how we deal with it.
Before I leave the subject of the European Union, let me refer to certain remarks made by the right hon. Member for Livingston (Mr. Cook).
Mr. D. N. Campbell-Savours (Workington):
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Mr. Rifkind:
Let me make some progress first. Perhaps I shall give way to the hon. Gentleman later.
I noted with interest that, in his speech to the Labour party conference, the right hon. Gentleman said:
"we are going to put jobs at the head of the European agenda . . . jobs will be the bottom line by which we judge whether Britain will join any single currency."
So jobs are the most important criterion--the single question. Yet, in the same breath--[Hon. Members: "Not the single important question."] The right hon. Gentleman certainly said that jobs were the most important consideration. He said that they would be the bottom line and at the head of our European agenda. He said that jobs would be both at the head of the agenda and the bottom line. Yet, in the same breath, he said that, within the first year after the general election, if there were a Labour Government they would end the British opt-out and sign up to the social chapter. No attempt was made to reconcile those brave words which are mutually incompatible.
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