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Mr. Elletson: My hon. Friend mentioned the defence manufacturing base. Like him, I have many constituents who work for British Aerospace at Warton and Samlesbury. Does my hon. Friend agree that his constituents' jobs depend significantly on defence exports? Does he agree that it is absolutely disgraceful that many Labour Members oppose defence exports to some of British Aerospace's most significant markets? Many Labour Members oppose the sale of defence equipment even to India.
Mr. Evans: I simply cannot understand the attitude to which my hon. Friend refers.
Mr. Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston): In response to the hon. Member for Ribble Valley (Mr. Evans), I want to make it clear that Labour is committed to the Eurofighter; there is no difference between us on that, and I hope that that message gets through to his constituents. Like him, I have many constituents who work in the aerospace industry--in Broughton, in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mr. Jones). That industry remains an important part of our manufacturing infrastructure and must not be forgotten, either by the current Government or by my hon. Friend the Member for South Shields (Dr. Clark), who will soon take over from the Secretary of State for Defence.
It is an interesting week for the House in terms of our commitment to the world, and I am referring not only to the parts of the Gracious Speech relating to foreign policy on which we have some agreement. Everything that we say in the House is now available not only to British newspapers and in Hansard but throughout the world on the Internet; that may cause certain right hon. and hon. Members to think twice about their remarks.
The Secretary of State for Defence may be interested to know that one person was delighted that the Government survived long enough to ensure that a Gracious Speech could be delivered this year--my daughter Joanne, who is 18 today and who was determined that the Government
should survive long enough for her to cast a vote for my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington, South (Mr. Hall) in the election.
I want to make some points following on from those that I made in the debate on the defence estimates last week. But before I do that, I heard this evening that the European Parliament had condemned British Petroleum for alleged activities in Colombia. We recently had reason to be critical of Shell--with which I work closely because it is an important employer in my constituency--over its policy in Nigeria, and now there is a similar problem with BP. Can the Secretary of State cast some light on what the Government know about BP's activities in Colombia, particularly in the light of what I intend to say about the drugs industry, which bedevils each and every constituency?
On defence, I want to concentrate on naval issues. I twice asked the Secretary of State a specific question about the batch 2 Trafalgar class submarines in the defence estimates debate. The subject follows neatly the comments of the hon. Member for Ribble Valley about the aerospace industry. We need to give confidence to our manufacturers and it would be helpful to know if and when the Government intend to place the orders. The opportunity is there, and the need has been identified, especially now that some navies in less than stable countries possess SSK submarines. I again press the Secretary of State for a clear answer on the matter.
We all know that in past engagements the merchant marine has provided sterling support for the Royal Navy. There are now concerns, in the Royal Navy and elsewhere, about the level of that support, especially in the light of the bizarre saga of the Ukrainian ship that was engaged in Operation Purple Star and was subsequently declared unseaworthy by the Americans. That is extremely worrying, and unless we ensure that the Royal Navy gets adequate support, we shall be doing the country a serious disservice.
The issue of drugs is important in every constituency. I thank the Minister of State for the Armed Forces for a positive response to my comments in the defence estimates debate. There are concerns about certain activities in the Caribbean and south American countries. The hon. Member for Blackpool, North (Mr. Elletson) made a pertinent comment about Cuba. It is clear that the real enemy in the Caribbean is the drugs industry and the way in which it is developing.
We have an important function through the West Indies guard ship, in partnership with the United States Coastguard, the Dutch navy and others who are trying to stop drug trafficking in the area. There are related questions about our relationships with countries such as Colombia, and questions that relate to other areas of policy. For example, what is to happen with the banana regime--a subject that crops up from time to time in the House? It is regarded too flippantly by some hon. Members on both sides of the House. The underlying issue is clear--if a small farming community fails to get the necessary support to maintain such crops, there will be a marketplace for the drug barons to force their way in. We have a responsibility, particularly to our Commonwealth partners, to ensure that every possible support is given.
I was pleased to be invited by the Foreign Office to attend a briefing by our ambassador in Burma a few months ago, as a result of some questions that I had raised. I formally thank the Ministers responsible, because I found the briefing very interesting.
The first paragraph of the Gracious Speech mentions a proposed royal visit to Thailand. All hon. Members are aware of some of the difficulties facing the Karen nation in camps on the Thai-Burmese border. I hope that the Government will use their best endeavours, through their foreign policy machinery, to put the utmost pressure on those two Governments to develop democratic rights for the people in those camps, who are wrongly regarded as stateless citizens.
The Karen nation has a long and proud tradition in the area, and many of its elders, including Bruce Humphrey-Taylor in my constituency, fought for the British Army in the second world war. They are getting a raw deal. I hope that we shall exert the maximum pressure on those regimes, particularly bearing in mind the recent pronouncements of the Burmese Government on the lack of freedoms granted to Aung San Suu Kyi.
I listened carefully to the thoughtful remarks of the hon. Member for Blackpool, North and his definitions of the role of foreign policy, but he missed out the important issue of our humanitarian responsibilities in the development of our foreign policy. Burma is a good example of an area in which the Government could take a lead and give real assistance. The problem is not specifically British, but it relates to the issue of the oil companies, which I mentioned earlier. As the Secretary of State for Defence knows, the freedom movement in Burma has expressed concerns about the role of some foreign oil companies in supporting the regime as a result of deals that have been struck.
Dr. David Clark (South Shields):
It is appropriate to spend the first day of the debate on the Gracious Speech on foreign affairs and defence. Those two intertwined policies are critical to the existence of our country. That is reinforced in the short sentence at the beginning of the substantive part of the Gracious Speech, which says it all:
We have had a good debate, because every right hon. and hon. Member who has sought to contribute has been successful. I was puzzled and somewhat disappointed by the Foreign Secretary's speech. Having had the honour of shadowing him for several years, I know the capabilities and incisiveness of his legally trained mind. Today I thought he was below par. For too long he gave us a tour d'horizon, but certainly not a tour de force. Only towards the end of his speech did he begin to address the real
problems facing Britain and British security--problems involving Europe, Hong Kong, Bosnia, Cyprus and the middle east. However, once that speech was over, we began a constructive and positive debate.
Once again my right hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Mr. Cook) drew the attention of the Foreign Secretary to all his omissions and widened the debate. He spoke about issues of serious concern to British citizens and exemplified the Government's shortcomings in such issues as bovine spongiform encephalopathy. The Government have let down not only the farmers, but the consumers very badly.
Six years ago, the Labour party produced a set of proposals which, had the Government accepted them, would have avoided our present difficulties with Europe and would have averted the need for a major cull. It is a pity that the Government would not listen to our proposals for the selective slaughter of calves from infected cows, a proper tagging system such as exists in Northern Ireland and restricting the use of offal in animal feed. Had the Government followed our advice then we would not be in such a mess and many farmers would not be in their present difficulties. That is just one shortcoming in the Government's foreign policy.
The right hon. Member for Guildford (Mr. Howell), the Chairman of the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, rightly addressed the role of diplomacy. I did not agree with everything that he said, but he was right to draw to our attention the necessity of diplomacy.
I enjoyed the thoughtful speech of the hon. Member for Ribble Valley (Mr. Evans), who made a useful contribution to the debate. Although the hon. Member for Blackpool, North (Mr. Elletson) is not in his place, the House benefited from hearing his opinion about Russia. He probably knows more about that country than any other hon. Member and I agree with most of the points he made. I very much agree with what he said about the expansion of NATO. Although we must take the Russians with us as far as possible, we must not let them dictate the shape of our security framework.
"National security continues to be of the highest importance."
The whole House concurs with that. The Gracious Speech goes on to refer to the future of NATO, Britain's nuclear deterrent, preventing the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and the early ratification of a comprehensive test ban treaty. On all those key points there is a consensus between the Conservative Government and the Labour Opposition--a consensus which, I am sure, also includes the Liberal Democrats. I shall return to that later.
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