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Mr. Piers Merchant (Beckenham): The hon. Gentleman referred to the dissemination of good practice. Has he looked at the Internet aspect of the Department's
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improving schools programme? Will he give his view on the contribution that that makes to the dissemination of good practice across the country?
Mr. Kilfoyle: No, I have not, but that will be academic for many schools unless they are wired up to the information super-highway. The leader of the Labour party announced at our conference last year that that would be at the heart of our education proposals. That was reiterated this year.
What happens to our children at key stage 1 under the improving schools programme? One third of primary school pupils are in classes of more than 30, which is a 24 per cent. rise in the past five years. The Government refuse to acknowledge that large class sizes can hamper educational achievement. Many people, including many Conservative Members, choose the private sector precisely because smaller class sizes equal a better education.
Respected research by Tennessee Star is often quoted in the House. It carried out an excellent research programme that showed that class size has a direct effect on educational achievement. In October, an independent study commissioned by the National Association of Head Teachers recognised the importance of class size to educational achievement. Most frightening of all is that in 1996 there has been a 20 per cent. jump in the number of children in classes of more than 36 pupils.
Lady Olga Maitland (Sutton and Cheam):
Is not the hon. Gentleman twisting and distorting the facts to suit his own interests? Does he acknowledge that larger primary classes have classroom assistants? No teacher is required solely and alone to teach such a large number of children to read and write. Teachers are always supported by a classroom assistant.
Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is teaching methodology that counts? He should not just complain about class sizes. Good-quality teaching will always do well.
Mr. Kilfoyle:
I could not disagree more with the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Lady Olga Maitland). Not every class has a classroom assistant to pad out the adult-pupil ratio. I shall deal with that later. Teaching methodology has a place, but it is not the sole factor. I have taught senior classes of 48 people, but those client-pupils were well-motivated academically. I did not have a problem. We are talking about the most formative years of a child's life, when individual tuition is a prerequisite to the acquisition of basic literacy and numeracy skills that will enable children fully to participate in education later on.
Lady Olga Maitland:
The hon. Gentleman misses out another important factor: the relationship between the school and the parents at home. Does he agree with me that it is vital that parents support their children when they are learning to read? Children's reading experience with their parents is equally important.
Mr. Kilfoyle:
I shall come to that shortly. The reading recovery programme, which is probably the most
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Labour will address those areas of concern. We have said honestly and openly that we will abolish the assisted places scheme, which currently costs £118 million.
That figure is set to rise next year--if the Government have their way--to £141 million. We believe that the transfer of that money will enable us to reduce class sizes for five, six and seven-year-olds. I am sure that the Minister will tell us about the written answer that the Government gave. They said that the cost of our proposals was between £120 million and £250 million, which I find extremely interesting. It was the hon. Member for Bath (Mr. Foster) who tabled the question. The fact that there is such a lack of precision speaks volumes about the DFEE. I am sure that the Minister will enlighten us, but we have based our figures on independent research carried out by the National Foundation for Educational Research.
Mr. Patrick Thompson:
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way to me before he moves too far beyond his mention of the assisted places scheme. I have experience of schools where that scheme has worked, and is working, extremely well. Would he and his Front-Bench colleagues be prepared to visit one of the large successful schools that operate the assisted places scheme, so that he can see what would be at stake if the scheme were to disappear?
Mr. Kilfoyle:
I have visited Wisbech grammar school, which last year received more money than any other school from the assisted places scheme. My old school, St. Edward's college in Liverpool, was one of the top three recipients of APS money. I could not but agree that the scheme is successful in putting money into schools. As the hon. Gentleman will recall, that was the original motivation behind it. It was designed to provide a subsidy for erstwhile direct grant schools that went into the independent sector. The arguments about the socio-economic background of the recipients of APS money were a post facto justification of what took place at the time.
Mr. Spearing:
My hon. Friend may be interested to know that I visited a rather well known former direct grant school of the type described by the hon. Member for Norwich, North (Mr. Thompson). As a Labour Member, I was asked about the assisted places scheme, and my reply was, "You do very well here. You have marvellous facilities and teachers and a site that serves the area. I would like all the boys in the borough"--it was a boys school--"to have similar opportunities. What do you say to that?" Should not the hon. Member for Norwich, North, who is a professional educator, share that view?
Mr. Kilfoyle:
One of the great misunderstandings among Conservatives is that we want to drag people down. We do not. We want to drag everybody up. We want everybody to share the benefits of the excellent education that no doubt most of the youngsters on the assisted places scheme get. And we have a different set of priorities, because a reduction in class sizes, which will enable all our children to get on to the ladder of
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Mr. Robin Squire:
I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman is developing his argument on assisted places. It must be one of the few policies of new Labour that is unpopular with the public, because it has not been developed in response to whatever seems to be the mood of the moment. It is clear that the public support the assisted places scheme.
May I clarify something else? The hon. Gentleman asked why the range of costs was so wide, but on reflection he will realise why no one, including the NFER survey on which he relied, and which specifically excluded capital costs, can give exact costs. Until one checks school by school, one cannot possibly know whether there would be space within this or that school for another classroom, or whether three, four, or five children would be deprived of the opportunity to attend a school in the future. The whole idea is flawed, but I thought that I would give the hon. Gentleman a factual answer.
Mr. Kilfoyle:
From the Minister's perspective, that may appear to be so, because it may be beyond the wit of the Government to achieve a better distribution of the 800,000 surplus places that already exist. One would hope that, where there is a commitment to state education and to the provision of smaller classes--where there is a will--there will be a way. And under Labour, there will be a will.
Mr. John Whittingdale (Colchester, South and Maldon):
The hon. Gentleman said that he would use the money saved by the abolition of the assisted places scheme to reduce class sizes. What figure did he use in calculating the cost of educating the pupils now on the assisted places scheme when they have to move into the maintained sector?
Mr. Kilfoyle:
I shall come to that in a moment, but we have said repeatedly that the programme will be phased. It is not as if, overnight--[Hon. Members: "Oh!"] Obviously, we shall not prejudice the education of any child. We shall simply stop awarding fresh scholarships. That will have an impact. [Interruption.] The Conservatives say one thing and do another.
Let me give some figures. The hon. Member for Colchester, South and Maldon (Mr. Whittingdale) asked about costs. In 1993, the average expenditure per secondary school pupil in local education authority maintained schools in England was £2,250. The average fee charged per pupil under the assisted places scheme is £4,110. If that is not a subsidy to the private school and an advantage for the individual pupil, I do not know what is. Natural justice, if nothing else, demands that that no longer be allowed.
As for what one should do at key stage 1, throughout the early school years we shall reintroduce the reading recovery scheme I mentioned. We have set up literacy and numeracy task forces to work out how best to address the real needs of all our children and help them to acquire basic competence in maths and English.
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