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House of Commons

Monday 4 November 1996

The House met at half-past Two o'clock

PRAYERS

[Madam Speaker in the Chair]

DEATH OF A MEMBER

Madam Speaker: I regret to have to report to the House the death of George Barrington Porter Esq., Member for Wirral, South. I am sure that hon. Members on both sides of the House will join me in mourning the loss of a colleague and extending our sympathy to the hon. Member's family and his friends.

Oral Answers to Questions

WALES

Youth Councils

1. Mr. Simon Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has to set up youth councils in Wales. [278]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Jonathan Evans): None, but the Welsh Office funds the Wales Youth Agency, which is working collaboratively with local authorities and key local agencies to encourage and inform the development of effective local youth councils throughout Wales.

Mr. Hughes: I am grateful to the Minister for that answer and that encouragement. I gather that in Barry, for example, an embryo youth council is already being enthusiastically supported by the Welsh Development Agency. Given that we are hearing from all sides that, in spite of best efforts, young people are still often apathetic and ignorant about the political process, will the Minister assure the House that his Department will do all that it can, both in support of the Wales Youth Agency and in other ways, to ensure that every opportunity is given to young people in and out of school throughout the Principality to learn that politics can be good for one?

Mr. Evans: As one who joined the Young Conservatives at the age of 15, I endorse the hon. Gentleman's latter sentiment. I thank him for his remarks about the Wales Youth Agency. It is right that the Welsh Office funds it. He will know that the United Kingdom Youth Work Alliance's document, "Agenda for a Generation: Building Effective Youth Work", is to receive its all-party Welsh launch in the House later this afternoon. I intend to be present at that launch, and I hope that that is the encouragement that he is looking for.

Mr. John Marshall: Does my hon. Friend agree that young people in Wales and elsewhere are interested in

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policies that are relevant to their future, such as greater choice, lower taxation and a strong defence, and that only one party is willing to put forward those policies?

Mr. Evans: I very much endorse my hon. Friend's observations, which would apply to the entire population. It is clear that the involvement of young people with a number of organisations during the formative years can play an important part in developing good programmes for good citizenship. The Welsh Office is supporting that through the provision of £761,000 this year for 17 national youth organisations and for the Wales Youth Agency itself. I regard that work as supplementary, in a sense, to the important considerations to which my hon. Friend has drawn the attention of the House.

Mr. Win Griffiths: I, too, will be at the launch this afternoon. Does the Minister recognise that the youth service--voluntary and statutory--plays a vital role in offering young people practical advice and guidance, imbued with moral purpose and direction, reflecting on their rights and duties as individuals, co-operating with others to create a new civic society in place of our present stressed and fractured one, in which, unfortunately, they are much more likely to have had experience of criminality, drugs and violence than people of my generation? Does he intend to do anything about that by bringing forward proposals to help the Wales Youth Agency and youth organisations and workers?

Mr. Evans: I very much welcome the hon. Gentleman's support for what I have said in relation to the launch this afternoon of the paper to which I referred. It is not good enough to say that such activity is the responsibility only of central Government. I have described the support that we are giving to the Wales Youth Agency and the 17 national youth organisations and the rest of it, but the hon. Gentleman's friends in local government also have a responsibility. It really is not good enough to mouth such words in the House when Welsh youth services do not get the support that they are entitled to expect to receive from Welsh local authorities.

Local Government Responsibilities

2. Sir Wyn Roberts: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has to enhance the responsibilities of local authorities. [279]

The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. William Hague): Last month, following wide consultation, I announced measures for cutting central controls and extending the influence of local government in Wales. That initiative has been widely welcomed.

Sir Wyn Roberts: Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is considerable scope to build constructively on the relationship between the Welsh Office and the local authorities; that there is a challenge to the new unitary authorities to show their worth nationwide; and, finally, that his approach offers a better path to devolution than the mishmash of policies offered by the Opposition?

Mr. Hague: Yes, I agree with my right hon. Friend. The measures announced last month give local government more responsibilities, and I am prepared to

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go further if that will improve the quality and responsiveness of local services. Councils have been asked to supply new ideas for cutting central control and devolving functions by 20 December this year. I look forward to receiving more ideas. As my right hon. Friend has pointed out, that is real and worthwhile devolution to true local government instead of the creation of a whole new tier of administration, bureaucracy and elections, as favoured by some Opposition Members.

Mr. Rowlands: Is it not already difficult enough to fulfil the responsibilities of local government, given the existing finances? If there are further cuts in local government finance, schools could close and teachers could be made redundant; already, residential homes are being closed. Will the right hon. Gentleman stand up in the Cabinet and support those essential services instead of cuts in inheritance duty and capital gains tax?

Mr. Hague: Local government in Wales was allowed to increase its spending by more than 3 per cent. last year and 87 per cent. of that money is provided from central Government. That is a much higher proportion than is the case in England. I am considering the representations made by local authorities ahead of this year's spending settlement, but there is no reason why local authorities should not be able to fulfil their responsibilities.

Mr. Ian Bruce: My right hon. Friend hinted a moment ago at the proportion of money that is given by central Government to local government in Wales. Will he give us the equivalent figure in England, and does he believe that devolution would be a good deal for Wales if Wales ended up getting far less money from central Government?

Mr. Hague: The comparison for England with the 87 per cent. figure that I quoted for Wales is 79 per cent., and that makes a large difference to the figures. It should be a source of some concern in Wales that, if ever there were to be established--heaven forbid--a Welsh Assembly, the financial priority that is given to Wales might continue no longer. Welsh local government should also be concerned that the kind of package that I have announced, which will give more responsibility to local councils, has received little, if any, welcome from Opposition Members, who would rather centralise power in an assembly than give it to local councils.

Mr. Ron Davies: When the assembly is created, it will be with the will of the people--perhaps the Secretary of State should reflect on that. Meanwhile, I wish to question him on matters for which he is currently responsible. Given reports over the weekend of his support for caning, does he have any plans to restore to local government the power to reintroduce physical beating of schoolchildren? How does he personally feel about being a member of a Government who, after 17 years, have created such an alienated and divided society that Back Benchers such as the hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Mr. Sweeney) apparently believe that order can now be restored only by spanking schoolchildren and shooting burglars on sight? Does the Secretary of State share those views and, if he does not, will he make it clear that they are extremist views that will never be part of mainstream politics in any decent society?

Mr. Hague: The hon. Gentleman is well out of date in attributing to me any of the views in the Sunday morning

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newspapers. As I made clear in some of those newspapers and on television yesterday, my view is that this is a side issue and that the Education Bill will include the measures necessary to improve discipline in our schools. I also made it clear that it is time for everyone, including members of all parties, to give credit to the thousands of teachers and the tens of thousands of pupils--many of whom I have had the privilege of seeing--who are doing a tremendous job in the schools of Wales. The measures in the Bill are necessary to build on that, and I look forward to the hon. Gentleman supporting them.

Dr. Spink: Knowing, as I do, how much my right hon. Friend believes in accountability, may I ask whether he agrees that introducing another level of government in Wales would reduce, not increase, accountability?

Mr. Hague: Another level of government would certainly confuse accountability and the electorate, and would lead to endless buck passing between one layer of government and another. That is something that we must avoid.

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