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House of Commons

Thursday 7 November 1996

The House met at half-past Two o'clock

PRAYERS

[Madam Speaker in the Chair]

MESSAGE FROM THE QUEEN

Queen's Speech (Answer to Address)

The Vice-Chamberlain of the Household reported Her Majesty's Answer to the Address, as follows:

I have received with great satisfaction the loyal and dutiful expression of your thanks for the Speech with which I opened the present Session of Parliament.

Oral Answers to Questions

HOME DEPARTMENT

Criminal Convictions

1. Mr. Robert Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will list for each of the last three years the proportion of criminal offences that ended in a court conviction. [914]

The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Michael Howard): About 6 per cent., but the percentage for more serious offences was very much higher and many of those convicted will have committed other crimes of which they have not been convicted.

Mr. Ainsworth: Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman accept that that figure is a percentage of recorded crime only, that the level of convictions is a disgrace and that the biggest deterrent to crime is the fear of getting caught? Will he accept that it is now three times more likely that a burglar or rapist will escape punishment than when Labour was in power? Will he do something to address that problem, instead of giving us this continual rhetoric?

Mr. Howard: The hon. Gentleman's comments would carry some conviction if he and his hon. Friends had been prepared to support the measures that we have taken to increase the likelihood of convictions taking place. Let me give an example: if the rate of suspects refusing to answer questions has fallen by half--as it has since we reformed the right to silence--that reform is likely to increase the proportion of convictions, yet the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends, including the Leader of the Opposition, steadfastly opposed it, root and branch.

Sir Irvine Patnick: Some of those offences will be knife offences. As my right hon. and learned Friend is aware, I contacted the umbrella organisations for the

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industry in Sheffield to ensure that none of the manufacturers were disadvantaged. I sent him some of the work done by the Cutlery and Allied Trades Research Association. Has that been taken into consideration when framing any proposed legislation?

Mr. Howard: I can assure my hon. Friend that we shall take into account all representations, including those to which he referred, when considering proposals for further legislation on this matter.

Mr. Riddick: Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that, when someone is convicted of a criminal offence, it is important that he receives an appropriate sentence? Will he assure the House that he will continue to work towards his objective of imposing longer sentences on burglars, rapists and other people who commit violent crimes, and that he will not be deflected from that objective by the views of former Ministers, liberal judges and penal reformers? The British public are entirely behind his efforts on this front.

Mr. Howard: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and I can certainly give him the assurance that he requests. If we are to fight crime effectively, we need both to convict the criminals and to ensure that they are properly dealt with--and properly punished--when they have been convicted. That is one of the purposes of the proposals set out in the Crime (Sentences) Bill--a Bill to which the hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr. Straw) referred on the radio this week, saying that he was leading the opposition to it.

Mr. Beggs: When criminal offences involving the illegal smuggling of tobacco products into the United Kingdom occur, such as the recent large haul impounded in Belfast in Northern Ireland, will the right hon. and learned Gentleman seek to ensure that the level of fine imposed on conviction matches the value of the impounded cargo and thereby protect our local newsagents and, indeed, the Treasury, which is losing valuable revenue?

Mr. Howard: I understand and sympathise with the hon. Gentleman's argument. I am not sure that we are yet ready to introduce a series of minimum mandatory fines and, in the absence of such fines, the matter is for the discretion of the court concerned, but I have great sympathy with the argument that the hon. Gentleman makes.

Mr. Michael: As the Home Secretary issues his soundbite attacks on the Opposition, he knows in his heart of hearts that Labour has worked hard in opposition to be tough on crime, to be tough on the causes of crime and to support the Government when they make constructive proposals. In contrast, would not a little more humility be appropriate when the Home Secretary considers the facts: that recorded crime is double the level it was when the Conservative party came to power, that fewer than one in 50 crimes end up in a punishment by a court, and that, in his county of Kent, violent crime has gone up by 300 per cent.--and robbery by 600 per cent.--since the Conservative party came to power?

Mr. Howard: We hear these inane generalities from the Labour party, but Labour Members refuse to deal with

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the specific points such as the example that I put to them a few minutes ago. The number of suspects refusing to answer questions has nearly halved since we reformed the right to silence. When we reformed the right to silence, the Labour party--whose shadow Home Secretary at the time is now the Leader of the Opposition--opposed that reform root and branch. What we have done--not uttering inane generalities across the Floor of the House--is the way to get criminals convicted and to reduce crime.

Handguns

2. Mr. Winnick: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make a statement on the Government's latest proposals on handguns. [915]

The Minister of State, Home Office (Miss Ann Widdecombe): The Government have introduced legislation that will stop all handguns being kept at home--.22 rimfire handguns will have to be kept in licensed, secure pistol clubs. All higher calibre handguns will be prohibited. I believe that those provisions will give the public the protection that they need.

Mr. Winnick: Is there not overwhelming public support for a ban on handguns? Is it not a pity that the Government are not going even further, as requested by the police and as would certainly be supported by the public--although Ministers are shaking their heads? Is it not disgraceful--almost obscene--that some members of the gun lobby are reported to be urging a dirty tricks campaign against the organisers of Snowdrop? How low and deplorable can one get?

Miss Widdecombe: I naturally deplore all dirty tricks campaigns and all low and deplorable levels to which people sink when opposing perfectly sensible legislation. I believe that the measures that we are introducing produce the right balance between protecting the public, ensuring that handguns will not be in circulation outside secure clubs and preserving what has been a perfectly legitimate sport in this country for more than 100 years.

Mr. John Carlisle: Does my hon. Friend accept my total opposition, of which she knows, to this intended Bill? The Government intend to confiscate the personal property of innocent individuals. The Bill will have an enormous effect, not only on those individuals but on numerous businesses and very many others attached to the industry. The proposed compensation is totally inadequate. In a sense of fairness, will the Government accept that they are wrong? Will my hon. Friend ensure that compensation is much fairer and wider than is presently proposed, especially in the money resolution associated with the Bill?

Miss Widdecombe: Our current proposal is to compensate people for the loss of their guns at the market value of those guns on the day before the Secretary of State's statement. We shall compensate dealers for their stocks of guns on the same basis. I am always prepared to consider any sensible and reasonable suggestion that any hon. Member on either side of the House may wish to make during the Bill's passage, but I have explained our present thinking to my hon. Friend.

Mr. Henderson: The Minister will be aware that, arising out of the gun Bill, there has been wide public

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debate not just about pistols, but about other forms of firearms currently used in the United Kingdom. Has consideration been given to airguns, which are commonly in use in many parts of the country? They are often used by young people to intimidate and harass others in the community, and can be purchased by a 17-year-old and used by a person aged 14. Does the Minister believe that there is a case for reviewing the law on airguns, considering a system of licensing, and changing the age at which people can buy or use such potentially lethal weapons?

Miss Widdecombe: Licensing is important. That is why, although the Bill is largely geared to handguns, it includes proposals that cover rifles as well. The proposals that we have produced are in response to the independent report by Lord Cullen. It is in the public interest to get legislation on the statute book quickly. We therefore thought that we should tackle the particular problem in hand.

Mr. Peter Griffiths: Can my hon. Friend say when she may be able to offer a considered response to the genuine concerns of those who shoot with muzzle-loading, flintlock or matchlock pistols, which could not by any remote stretch of the imagination be connected with contemporary crime?

Miss Widdecombe: My hon. Friend will be aware that we have made a number of exceptions--for example, for antique guns and trophies of war. We are giving careful consideration to the definitions that we have used. We will take into account the concerns expressed by my hon. Friend, and consider our response as soon as possible.

Ms Eagle: Will the Minister comment on the availability of extremely dangerous shotgun cartridges, which often do greater damage than smaller bullets in handguns? Although everyone in the House accepts the argument that handguns should be banned because they can be more easily concealed, does the Minister agree that we should consider stricter licensing measures for rifles and shotguns as well, and the possibility of including such measures in the Bill?

Miss Widdecombe: I have already said that we have tightened up the conditions for issuing certificates, especially with regard to the referees required and the proof of fitness. That applies not only to handguns, but to rifles as well. I also said, in response to the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, North (Mr. Henderson), that many issues might have been considered, but, in the interests of getting legislation quickly on to the statute book to protect the general public, we have addressed principally the concerns raised by Lord Cullen.

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