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Government Expenditure

10. Mr. Stephen: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what was total Government expenditure in Scotland as a percentage of the United Kingdom total in 1994-95; and what was Scotland's relative share. [3468]

Mr. Michael Forsyth: Scotland had 8.8 per cent. of the UK population and received 10.2 per cent. of funding in 1994-95.

Mr. Stephen: Do not those figures show that the people of Scotland are getting an extremely good deal from this Conservative Government? Is it not time that Scottish Opposition Members stopped their ritual moaning and groaning and acknowledged the enormous benefits that membership of the United Kingdom provides to their constituents?

Mr. Forsyth: The people of England are getting a very good deal from Scotland being part of the United Kingdom. My hon. Friend is right to point out that there is a substantial financial benefit to Scotland from the present constitutional arrangements which, with that substantial funding, all the Opposition parties would put in jeopardy. Given the size of the additional funding that we enjoy, tampering with it would put at risk many vulnerable groups who depend on health care and local government and other services.

Mr. Foulkes: Is the Secretary of State aware that that budget includes £13 million of capital expenditure for the East Ayrshire hospital? Why has he not given that project the go-ahead? Why has he delayed it for two months so that a private finance initiative bid can be considered? Why has he continued to delay while that private finance initiative bid is allowed to be adjusted? Something fishy is going on--what is it?

Mr. Forsyth: What is going on is that we are trying to provide a hospital for the hon. Gentleman's constituents. I am sorry that he is so concerned that we are doing everything we can to bring in private finance so that more projects can go ahead in the health service in Scotland--on which we have a record of which we are proud.

Mr. Stewart: Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of his biggest blocks of expenditure in Scotland is local authority expenditure? Why is local authority expenditure in Scotland so much greater than that in England or Wales?

Mr. Forsyth: Because we have so many more Labour councils and because of the waste and profligacy in local government that has to be seen to be believed. The additional grant is necessary because those Labour councils are so bad at collecting council tax. Uncollected

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council tax and community charge adds up to three quarters of a billion pounds--money that could be used for front-line services. It is money that Labour councils, in the main, have refused to collect.

Mr. Macdonald: Does the Secretary of State agree that Government expenditure in Scotland will inevitably have to increase if the salmon industry collapses, with the loss of thousands of jobs? Will he confirm that he favours a minimum import price, but that he has been overruled by the Treasury and the Chancellor, who prefer the purity of free market ideology to protecting Scotland's jobs?

Mr. Forsyth: The hon. Gentleman usually accuses me of being the supporter of free market ideology. [Interruption.] This is a serious issue. The farmed salmon industry is vital to Scotland. Many thousands of jobs depend on it.

The salmon price has fallen dramatically. One way to deal with the matter in the short term is to ask the Community to introduce a minimum import price. In the longer term, we need to tackle the root of the problem--Norwegian dumping into the market. The Commission is at present investigating those matters with a view to reporting in early spring.

I know the hon. Gentleman's anxieties about the matter. I am in discussion with my colleagues about it. I will continue that discussion in the hope of being as supportive as I can to the industry, which is vital to the highlands and to the hon. Gentleman's constituency in the islands.

Local Government Finance

11. Mr. David Marshall: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland when he next intends to meet the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to discuss local government finances. [3469]

Mr. Kynoch: The next meeting is scheduled for 17 January.

Mr. Marshall: Does the Minister agree that the present formula for distributing revenue support grant takes little or no account of the costs, services and needs associated with business communities in city areas? Is he aware that Glasgow city council collects slightly more than £200 million per annum in non-domestic rates but receives slightly more than £150 million in return--a loss of £50 million per annum to the city? What does the Minister intend to do about such blatant discrimination against the major cities in Scotland?

Mr. Kynoch: The hon. Gentleman is only too well aware that the distribution of funds to local authorities in Scotland is discussed at the distribution committee of the Scottish Office and COSLA. The formulae used for that distribution have been in place since 1985, and are discussed and fine tuned each year. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman asks the City of Glasgow why it still has not collected about £200 million of community charge and council tax. If it did, that might solve its problems more quickly.

Mr. Norman Hogg: Is it not the case that the Government already know what next year's local

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government funding will be? Is the Minister not aware of the grave situation that was created for local government last year, which placed very many services in danger and put cultural activities at risk? Will the Minister give an assurance that nothing like that will happen this year, that the settlement will not be used for electioneering purposes and that local government will not be asked to bear the cost of cuts designed to assist the Government's other tax strategies?

Mr. Kynoch: I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is aware that, last year, an increase of about 3.6 per cent. was given to local authorities throughout Scotland from central taxation. That enabled most authorities to increase their budget by a minimum of 3 per cent. over the previous year; some were able to increase it by 4 per cent.

The hon. Gentleman should address his comments to Labour councillors on his local council and ensure that they obtain the best value for money for their council tax payers so that more services are provided at better value. At present, they do not even know how many people they employ, as was witnessed by the joint staffing watch survey carried out jointly with COSLA. I believe that we shall continue to treat local authorities fairly throughout Scotland, provided that they act responsibly on behalf of taxpayers.

Government Expenditure

12. Mr. David Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the current total Government expenditure per capita in Scotland. [3470]

Mr. Michael Forsyth: Identifiable expenditure per head was £4,505 in Scotland--about 25 per cent. higher than in England.

Mr. Evans: If that lot over there get their way on devolution, will us English stop subsidising their way of life? When the tartan tax takes over, will we police Hadrian's wall to stop the marauding Scots coming into England, which will by then be a tax haven--so they will all want to come here? Furthermore, if we have devolution, can my right hon. Friend assure me that Scottish Members of Parliament will have no authority in this House at all?

Mr. Forsyth: I think that is a fair summary of the arguments against the Labour party's case for a tax-raising Parliament. My hon. Friend put it very eloquently.

Mr. McFall: Can the Secretary of State explain why a formula that is widely seen to be fair by all United Kingdom parties should now be seen as unfair in the context of a Scottish Parliament? In a country where, after 17 years of Conservative rule, one in five households have no one in work, as many as 1 million elderly people are paying the penalty of the Tory VAT increases on heating, and thousands of young people are leaving school for a no-hope jobless future, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is nothing less than shameful that a politically vacuous, illiterate and ignorant English Back Bencher should suggest that we in Scotland cannot manage our expenditure with a Scottish Parliament?

Mr. Forsyth: I dare say my hon. Friend the Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Mr. Evans) has done more for wealth

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creation than has the hon. Gentleman. If he is puzzled as to why the formula would no longer continue, the answer is that he cannot expect this House to continue to vote 25 per cent. more money for the Scots than for hon. Members' own constituents in England if the hon. Gentleman and his party have their way and there is a tax-raising Parliament in

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Scotland. It is because the hon. Gentleman and his party wish to gerrymander our constitution that they place that funding at risk. The people who would suffer would not be the hon. Gentleman and his cronies in the Labour party; it would be the honourable, ordinary people of Scotland who would find their services jeopardised.

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Zaire

3.30 pm

Dr. John Reid (Motherwell, North) (by private notice): To ask the Minister of State for the Armed Forces if he will make a statement on the plans for the deployment of British forces to Zaire.

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