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Eurofighter

4. Mr. Donald Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what recent discussions he has had with his German counterpart concerning the Eurofighter project. [4312]

Mr. Portillo: I met my German counterpart, Volker Ruhe, last week. We had extensive discussions on a wide range of subjects, including Eurofighter. He told me that Germany expects to make a decision on participation in the production investment phase and the production phase of the Eurofighter programme early in 1997.

Mr. Anderson: The Secretary of State will be aware of the Labour party's total commitment to the project, because of its vital contribution to the Royal Air Force, to our industrial defence base and to employment in the north-west and Bristol. Now that there is endorsement from every party in the German coalition, and following his conversations, is the Secretary of State convinced that

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the period of instability is over and that we can proceed, confident that the project will commence not later than March next year?

Mr. Portillo: I am pretty confident about the attitude of the German Administration, but the proposals must go through the Bundestag, and one can never take parliamentary votes for granted. We must therefore wait until that happens.

In the run-up to the election and, as the hon. Gentleman says disarmingly frankly, with so many marginal seats, I fully expect the Labour party to be solidly committed to the Eurofighter before the election. I point out, however, that it is a £15 billion project. I observe that the Labour Benches are full of Members who hate defence spending. They are busy promising to spend money on one programme after another. I know that, if the shadow Chancellor were Chancellor of the Exchequer, he would be looking for cuts in the defence budget. I very much doubt whether Eurofighter would continue under a Labour Government.

Mr. Wilkinson: Will my right hon. Friend make it clear to Herr Volker Ruhe that the export potential of the aeroplane is of crucial interest to his Government and country as well as to us and to the Italians and the Spanish? In that regard, the longer the project's production is delayed, the more vulnerable the aircraft and export markets will be to competition. Finally, will my right hon. Friend remind Mr. Ruhe that the United Kingdom spends hundreds of millions of pounds in the Federal Republic through the stationing of British troops in time of peace, not least through the payment of locally employed German civilians?

Mr. Portillo: My hon. Friend will know that my approach to international negotiations is one of delicacy and sensitivity. Therefore, I naturally urge my German colleagues to participate in the programme, and I hope that they will do so. My hon. Friend expertly employs the right arguments: we want the plane to be thoroughly exportable and, if it is delayed, it will be less competitive because it will be late and more expensive. It would be a false economy to save money on the project now, because it would cost more in the long term. My hon. Friend utilises those arguments admirably.

Mr. Spellar: It is unfortunate that, after a few good weeks, today the Secretary of State demeaned himself by attempting to undermine the important Eurofighter project with a petty political issue. Will he take the opportunity to redress that mistake by joining me in extending congratulations to British Aerospace and its work forces on their excellent work developing the Eurofighter? Will he convey to his German counterpart at their next meeting the strong views of both his Government and their successors that the production stage should commence as quickly as possible?

Mr. Portillo: The hon. Gentleman must not think that British industry is naive: it knows what Labour Members of Parliament think. British industry players can read the motions put down at Labour party conferences, and they are not taken in by Opposition Front Benchers' Johnny-come-lately attitude to defence.

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My hon. Friend the Member for Ruislip-Northwood (Mr. Wilkinson) referred to defence exports. The industry can read perfectly clearly the Labour party's attitude to arms sales and arms exports. It knows that Labour is strongly committed to global disarmament, and then where would our defence exports be? The hon. Gentleman must not assume that he has taken in British Aerospace or any other leading British company.

RAF Equipment

5. Mr. Sweeney: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what plans he has for RAF equipment upgrades over the next three years. [4313]

The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Mr. James Arbuthnot): Over the course of the next three years, the RAF will take delivery of upgraded Tornado attack and fighter aircraft, EH101 support helicopters, additional Chinook helicopters and the advanced short-range air-to-air missile. These and other important programmes represent significant enhancements to the RAF's capabilities.

Mr. Sweeney: I welcome those announcements. Does my hon. Friend agree that the maintenance of progress in updating our equipment is vital to the morale and efficiency of the RAF? Will he comment also on the implications for RAF St. Athan, which he knows is the biggest employer in the Vale of Glamorgan and does much high-quality aircraft maintenance work?

Mr. Arbuthnot: I agree with my hon. Friend, and I pay tribute to his consistent support for the excellent work done at RAF St. Athan in his constituency. He spoke to me recently on that subject. The "Competing for Quality" programme at RAF St. Athan will continue, because it has helped to save hundreds of millions of pounds for the armed services, which can then be spent on equipment such as that to which I have referred.

Mr. Hardy: While I welcome the fact that the Royal Air Force will receive updated and proper equipment, does the Minister recognise that it also needs high morale and good people? Does he recognise that, in the past few years, the Government have cut manpower in the Royal Air Force by almost two fifths and often subjected those who remain to gross overstretch? That situation needs attention.

Mr. Arbuthnot: The morale of the Royal Air Force is very high and service men know that they are highly valued by the party in government, partly because of the equipment programme to which I have referred. As a result of that programme, spending on RAF equipment will almost double by the turn of the century. That is fantastic news for the Royal Air Force, and the hon. Gentleman should not downplay it.

Sir Anthony Grant: Will my hon. Friend tell us when a decision will be made on the RAF TriStar support contract, which he will appreciate is of great concern to Cambridgeshire? We are anxious that the expertise of Marshalls--the company that he knows all about--should not be lost.

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Mr. Arbuthnot: My hon. Friend has spoken to me on several occasions about this important contract, for which there are a number of competitors. I hope to make a decision shortly.

Mr. Murphy: On the day of the Budget, Ministers talk grandly about saving money. Will the Minister tell the House how much money was squandered on the Tornado disaster at RAF St. Athan? Was it hundreds of thousands of pounds, millions of pounds or tens of millions of pounds?

Mr. Arbuthnot: The hon. Gentleman is doing it again: he is irresponsibly playing with figures. It is far too early to give the precise amount involved: there must first be a full investigation. If the Labour party came to power, it would undertake a strategic defence review with the painful consequences to which the hon. Member for South Shields (Dr. Clark) referred. We know that those painful consequences would be cuts in defence, cuts in the numbers of our armed services and cuts for our defence industry. The hon. Member for South Shields admits that those would be the painful consequences.

Mr. Bill Walker: Will my hon. Friend remind those who are critical of our concern about the future of Eurofighter of the TSR2? We had a world leader and a world beater that was cancelled by a Labour Government. Will he also remind Volker Ruhe that, when the German Parliament considers the future of the Eurofighter, it should remember that we could still go it alone? We could call it the Spitfire, and at a later date we would be happy to sell it to the Luftwaffe.

Mr. Arbuthnot: What a tempting prospect. My hon. Friend referred to the TSR2. I think that it was a Labour politician who said that we do not need to look into a crystal ball; we just need to read the book. We know what would happen if there were a Labour Government.

RAF Recruitment Costs

6. Mr. Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what was the cost of recruiting each new member of the Royal Air Force in each of the past five years. [4314]

Mr. Soames: The average cost of a recruit to the Royal Air Force in fiscal year 1995-96 was £10,333. Figures for the previous four years were £22,000, £26,000, £19,000 and £6,000 respectively.

Mr. Flynn: Is this not an Alice in Wonderland situation? In the year when it cost £26,000 to recruit one member of the RAF, the Government made 1,000 members redundant, most of whom were highly skilled. Most of them were made redundant against their wishes. In the following two years, when a new recruit cost £22,000, the Government made 2,000 and 3,000 redundant. Is that not financial mismanagement on an Olympic scale?

Mr. Soames: No, it is not. I know that the hon. Gentleman is unable to participate in Defence questions very often, but it is clear that he has not been present in the past few months when these matters were exhaustively debated. He must try to understand that, despite the

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considerable downsizing that has taken place, the RAF needs to maintain a viable recruitment organisation. We need to recruit fewer people into the Royal Air Force, so each recruit plainly costs more. As the number of recruits rises in the next few years, the recruitment costs will fall. I am satisfied that we have an efficient and effective recruitment infrastructure, and that in the years to come the cost per recruit will significantly reduce.

Mr. Bellingham: Will my hon. Friend join me in paying tribute to members of 39 PR squadron at RAF Marham, who have been involved in recent reconnaissance missions over Zaire and Rwanda? Incidentally, it is the former squadron of my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre (Mr. Mans), himself an intrepid aviator. Will my hon. Friend pay tribute to those airmen based in my constituency, and wish them well in their mission?

Mr. Soames: I believe that every penny spent on the recruiting of the crew of that squadron was money well spent. I will always join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to the extraordinary aviation skills of our hon. Friend the Member for Wyre (Mr. Mans)--and I also thank my hon. Friend for his splendid support for the RAF.

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