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Gulf War

7. Ms Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement about the use of organophosphate pesticides by British troops in the Gulf war. [4315]

Mr. Soames: As I announced last month, we have initiated an urgent and comprehensive investigation into the use of organophosphate pesticides during the Gulf war. I will report further and in great detail when that work is complete.

Ms Eagle: Does the Minister realise that it is two months since he told the House that the use of such dangerous materials was much more widespread, and had possibly affected our troops during the Gulf war? Does he recall saying last month that an investigation would take place? Despite that, we have still heard nothing. Can the Minister tell the House when we are likely to hear the details of the investigation initiated by his Ministry? There are hundreds of Gulf war veterans with Gulf war syndrome out there, and they are very worried indeed.

Mr. Soames: The hon. Lady is right: when I answered a question--the same question--that she asked on 29 October, I did indeed say that we would report to the House as soon as we had the information to hand, and that remains the case. This is an extremely detailed and urgently conducted investigation. I hope to be able to make a statement to the House early in December, with all the information that it will need in order to reach a conclusion.

Mr. Robathan: The whole House will join my hon. Friend in wishing to ensure that people injured by their service are well looked after by Her Majesty's forces. Does my hon. Friend not agree, however, that a bandwagon is trundling by, on to which many Opposition

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Members and lawyers are jumping? Does he accept that, six years after my service in the Gulf, the awful cold I have is not a matter for compensation?

Mr. Soames: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who knows at first hand the great importance that we attached to looking after our troops during what was a major deployment. Interestingly, because of extraordinary advances in medical science, we were able to have a deployment that was relatively disease-free--certainly in comparison with the experiences of the desert army in the last war.

I agree with my hon. Friend that it is important to keep in touch with reality, but there is no doubt that there are people who served in the Gulf who, having come home, are not well. It is also true that a substantial body of research in the United States, along with a good deal of research in this country, has concluded that there is no Gulf war syndrome per se, but that there are people who served in the Gulf and are ill. We must ensure that they are cared for properly, honourably and decently--and they will be.

Arms Exports

8. Mr. Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what recent advice his Department has given to the Department of Trade and Industry about the licensing of United Kingdom exports of arms to Indonesia. [4316]

Mr. Arbuthnot: My Department advises the Department of Trade and Industry on various aspects of export licensing. These would include the legitimate defence requirements of the recipient, the effect on regional stability and the risk of use against United Kingdom forces.

Mr. Harvey: What heroic military exploits on the part of the Indonesian army marked its members out as natural allies of this country? Was it the killing of 200,000 East Timorese since the illegal occupation of their country, or the assassination of Muslim protesters in Jakarta or that of Timorese people in Dili? Why do we keep an office in Indonesia for the Defence Export Services Organisation? Why did we underwrite half a billion pounds' worth of exports to the Indonesian military in 1992-93? Why do we send armaments, aircraft and tanks whose manufacturers describe them as ideal for internal security? What is it about these people that marked them out as our natural allies?

Mr. Arbuthnot: The hon. Gentleman has ruined his case. Unfortunately, all export applications are examined very rigorously by this country. The hon. Gentleman ought to welcome positive developments in Indonesia: he ought to welcome, for example, the formation of the National Human Rights Commission there. We have thoroughly investigated every report that Hawk aircraft have been used against East Timor, and we have found that there is no evidence to support those claims. The hon. Gentleman does himself no service whatever.

Mr. Atkins: Will my hon. Friend join me in ensuring that his advice to the Department of Trade and Industry is to congratulate companies such as British Aerospace, which is closing substantial deals with Indonesia, Qatar

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and Australia? That is evidence of the efforts of that great company, which is represented by so many of our hon. Friends, who were working a jolly sight harder for British Aerospace at all levels long before that lot were.

Mr. Arbuthnot: My right hon. Friend is right. What was notable as he asked his question was the total silence from Opposition Members. Although they profess to support British industry, in practice the Labour party hates British defence industry exporting any equipment at all.

Mrs. Clwyd: The Minister is wrong. Hawk aircraft have been spotted in East Timor by Hugh O'Shaughnessy and by people who live there. The trouble is that the Government prefer to believe the Indonesian Government rather than eye-witness accounts. Why is he always telling us that Hawk aircraft are used as trainers in Indonesia when, during a military exercise last week, Hawk aircraft were used to fire rockets? The accounts are that the rockets reduced the target to scorched earth. Where were those aircraft converted for that use--in Britain or in Indonesia?

Mr. Arbuthnot: I am sorry, but the hon. Lady is wrong. The minister counsellor at the Indonesian embassy has written that the Indonesian Government have never and will never use the Hawks to suppress the East Timorese. We have no evidence to suggest that that is untrue. We do not believe that it is untrue.

As I have said, we welcome the positive developments in Indonesia. The National Commission on Human Rights is also to be welcomed. The hon. Lady should welcome that as well. I regret that she does not. I am pleased that her Front-Bench team is at odds with her on the issue. When we export equipment, we need to be absolutely sure that it is not used for the repression of internal civilian populations; in this case, it certainly is not.

Mr. Richards: What is my hon. Friend's assessment of the level of international competition for defence contracts with Indonesia?

Mr. Arbuthnot: It is high. It is because British industry is so successful in being competitive, in creating good equipment and in offering good prices that we are able to take such a high proportion of the world defence equipment market. That is good news for British jobs, for British influence and for the Ministry of Defence, which is able to reduce the prices that it pays as a result of large cost runs. British industry's success should be welcomed not only by the Conservative party but by the Labour party. I wish it were, but it is not.

Army Commitments

9. Mr. Home Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the effects of overstretch in the Army. [4317]

Mr. Soames: A third of the Army is deployed on, preparing for, or recovering from operations. Although I am conscious of this high level of commitment, which inevitably places a strain on soldiers and their families, I am confident that the Army remains supremely capable of meeting all its main tasks.

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Mr. Home Robertson: Is it not a fact that the Government are taking liberties with our soldiers in the armed forces and damaging their morale by increasing their work load at the same time as cutting their resources? Would I be far wrong if I were to suggest that the resident battalions in Northern Ireland are, on average, 80 men under strength, that soldiers there must spend 51 per cent. of nights away from their quarters and that the average number of hours worked a week by a soldier is 98.6? The Minister may use the term "busy", but those are intolerable conditions for our soldiers in Northern Ireland and elsewhere.

Mr. Soames: The hon. Gentleman is always wrong on these matters and, today, he is wrong again. That was a misquoted farrago and tissue of innuendo and hopeless, incompetent fact. The Army's morale is extremely high. The Army is very busy, and that is one reason why its morale is high. Of course we are conscious of the fact that we can ask too much of our people, and that is why we take great care of their families and of them. Our people are well trained, well motivated and well equipped, and they do a wonderful job. The hon. Gentleman's portrayal is a fatuous travesty.

Mr. Brazier: Although I am glad to hear my hon. Friend's comments on overstretch, does he agree that one way in which we could be certain to make the situation very much worse would be to cut defence and to take on all sorts of extra third-world commitments--the type of programme that we could expect from a Labour Government?

Mr. Soames: My hon. Friend is right. As he knows, the nature and scale of the commitments that the armed forces of the Crown are invited to undertake are subject to the most rigorous and detailed scrutiny, particularly because our regular forces--which are all volunteer--are already heavily committed. The British Army will remain what it has always been: a supremely professional armed force, capable of high-intensity land battle, and not what it would be under the Labour party--some type of super-gendarmerie.

Dr. Reid: What a load of codswallop. Will the Minister confirm reports that, under the Government, even the SAS is short of recruits--recruitment has plummeted and its members are leaving--and that that dates from when the Secretary of State pledged his undying allegiance to the SAS, at the Tory party conference? Is it true that, last year, we were 3,000 soldiers short, and that the Minister pledged to redouble his efforts? He has redoubled them, but with what result? He has doubled the shortage. There is no problem that the Government, when they put their mind to it, cannot make worse.

Mr. Soames: That is a very silly little intervention, and I do not think that anyone will take it seriously. The hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that that is not the case. Recruitment is up 35 per cent. this year on last, enlistments are way ahead, and the only limitation on recruits for the airborne or the special forces will be the ability of those who undertake the selection test to pass it.

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