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Mr. Michael Connarty (Falkirk, East): I am attracted to support the new clause, because I think that it is unfortunate that it has turned into a bit of a party political football.
On 18 November, the most important amendment to the Bill, which would have made it a proper Bill by banning all handguns, including .22s, was resisted by the Government. They did everyone a disservice by whipping in their Members on that day. I was not one of the 56 people who did manage to turn out to vote for that amendment, because the Division Bell did not ring where I was that evening, nor did the policewoman call the Division there. I was not vigilant enough--rather, I put my trust in the House so much that I did not keep an eye on my watch and come to vote.
The Serjeant at Arms, Mr. Peter Jennings, has apologised to me for the lapses on the night of 18 November. I believe that the Conservatives should apologise to anyone whom they tried to tell that there was a conspiracy to allow them to win victory. I was with the Dunblane parents the week before the vote on 18 November when they lobbied Labour Members who were not sympathetic to their case and members of the Ulster Unionist party who did not sympathise with their case and who said that they would vote with the Government. We knew before 18 November that we would be defeated, and defeated quite substantially. Those parents knew that by the end of the week.
It is wrong to say that, just because we would be defeated again tonight, we should not support the new clause. The defeat is the same in essence: the Government are not prepared to take proper action to prevent a further Dunblane or Hungerford.
During the Labour party conference I met a father who lost a daughter at Hungerford, not to a pump-action rifle but to a handgun. That weapon should have been banned after the massacre at Hungerford, but the Government buried their head in the sand and took inadequate action. I would support any move to ban all handguns, even the new clause, which is designed to cover Scotland alone, because it would put down a marker for the people who signed the Snowdrop petition in Scotland. It would put down a marker for the people I helped to raise signatures for that petition and for the people of Dunblane to whom I and other hon. Members have spoken. Some hon. Members know that I live with the consequences of Dunblane daily because of connections in my life. Those people want to see us do something, but we failed to do that on 18 November. We should take the opportunity to do so tonight.
It seems to me that we have lost our way. I respect the views of my hon. Friend the Member for Hamilton (Mr. Robertson), as well as his technical knowledge of the House and about what might happen in another place. The written record of tonight will not read well because people outside who look into this place want to see if their overwhelmingly clear emotions have been reflected in the debates and votes held in the House. They are not interested in the technicalities and the wizardry of those who usually stitch up deals through the usual channels.
It has been said that, if we push the new clause to a vote, it will raise hopes that will then be dashed. What else is there if we take away the hope that we offer people that we can see clearly through the mud and the mire of the stitch-ups and the three-line Whips, the Government and party advantages in debates and votes in the House? We should see through clearly to what people want us to do--make society safer for them and their children.
Tonight's debate also shows clearly what the Opposition may be about--what we are about, I hope--when we talk about the powers of the Scottish Parliament within the United Kingdom. I am not talking about a separate Parliament that Members of the Scottish National party want, but one that respects the House and works with it, but would give Scotland the right to legislate for just the kind of decision incorporated in the new clause. It may be that, despite Hungerford and Dunblane, Members representing England may not want a ban on all handguns, but the people of Scotland want it because of Hungerford
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I would have been much happier tonight if all the points of agreement had been stressed much more strongly. People might then have pleaded with the SNP Members not to press the new clause to a Division. In fact, those Members would also include my hon. Friend the Member for Falkirk, West (Mr. Canavan), who is one of the signatories to the new clause, and who is present. I commend him for sponsoring that new clause. We share a common district council area and I believe we share a common thought on this matter.
Tonight, I hope that we shall not end up with people sending out press releases, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Strathkelvin and Bearsden (Mr. Galbraith) referred. I hope it will not be like that. I would be much happier if we were able to support the new clause vigorously. That would show that, when we have a Scottish Parliament, we shall have separate legislation. I have absolutely no doubt that, if such a Parliament existed now, such legislation would be different from that passed by the House. But then, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hamilton has said, after the general election, I hope that the majority will be provided by the Labour party. We shall then pass the legislation that we want for all the United Kingdom. In the meantime, I certainly intend to vote for the new clause if it is pressed to a Division.
Mr. Dennis Canavan (Falkirk, West):
I should like to make a brief contribution because I am one of the six principal sponsors of the new clause, which has been described by some people as a Scottish National party one. Credit must go to the leader of the SNP for taking the initiative in tabling the new clause, but the six principal sponsors also include the leader of Plaid Cymru, the leader of the Social Democratic and Labour party of Northern Ireland, a member of the Democratic Unionist party of Northern Ireland, the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Mrs. Michie), who is a member of the Scottish Liberal Democrat party, and me. Very rarely would the six principal sponsors of a new clause come from different parties and different sides of the House.
I would prefer a complete ban on all handguns throughout the United Kingdom. That is what I voted for on a previous occasion, but unfortunately that amendment was defeated. A complete ban on handguns throughout Scotland would at least be a start towards achieving that objective throughout the United Kingdom. If such a ban were enacted in Scotland, I hope that, in the fulness of time, the rest of the United Kingdom might follow suit, although that would probably require a general election, which would change the composition of the House.
I understand that one of the arguments used against the new clause is that it would create practical difficulties. We are asked how we could have a complete ban in one part of the United Kingdom and an incomplete one in another part of it. I can understand the Tories putting forward that argument, but for the life of me I cannot understand why hon. Friends on the Opposition Benches who are committed to setting up a Scottish Parliament can swallow it.
Let us suppose a Scottish Parliament had been in existence in the aftermath of the Dunblane massacre. There is no doubt that that Scottish Parliament would have
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The second argument that I have heard is that our case is unwinnable. They tell us that we will not win the vote, so we are wasting our time voting. I have been a Member of Parliament for 22 years, 17 of them in opposition. I have been travelling back and forth from Scotland down here every week. It is like walking on to the football field, knowing that we will be on the losing side before the ball has even been kicked, yet we still come down here and dutifully use our vote, because that is why our constituents sent us here. If we just sit here and abstain because we are not going to win, that is an affront to parliamentary democracy.
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