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Mr. George Robertson indicated dissent.
Mr. Salmond: The hon. Member for Hamilton shakes his head. He and I have disagreed on many subjects, as he rightly said. We have come to verbal blows on many matters. On this issue, until now, there has been no difference between us.
Perhaps the hon. Member for Hamilton should have told the House that, before I tabled the new clause, with the rainbow coalition of support that it has tonight, I asked him if he wanted to be one of its lead signatories. If he had been prepared to take that opportunity, it would have been of no possible political advantage to the Scottish National party. If he is prepared to lead Labour Members into the Lobby, in the knowledge that some Members who voted against a similar proposal two weeks ago will not vote against it tonight--
Mr. Robertson:
It is important that the House realises that the hon. Gentleman made that offer last Saturday, sitting in St. Giles's cathedral in Edinburgh. If there was a seriousness about getting the measure through the House, a seriousness about winning the Division, a seriousness about organising it, the time to start consulting people like me was much earlier than last Saturday.
I do not doubt the hon. Gentleman's motives, and I hope that, because some of my colleagues may have expressed a certain view, he will not simply ascribe it to me; nor should he say that people involved in a community cannot speak one for another. I do not doubt the hon. Gentleman's motives at all. I am saying that, on a previous occasion, when much attention was paid to the matter and a great deal of lobbying was done, we did not succeed. We are in danger of raising false expectations, and dashing them, in people who would deeply resent it. If the hon. Gentleman had talked to me--
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
Order. This is a very long intervention. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to catch my eye again, he may do so.
Mr. Salmond:
I think the hon. Gentleman made a misjudgment when he did not the accept the offer to be one of the lead signatories to the new clause. We know that some hon. Members who, for one reason or another, voted against a similar proposal two weeks ago or were unable to vote for it then, have expressed support for the new clause. If the hon. Gentleman wants a good result tonight, all he must do is to lead his troops, by encouragement, into the right Lobby; then we shall get a result that will encourage Scotland. Perhaps he will then be in a position where no one will be able to take political advantage of him. The position is in the hon. Gentleman's hands.
4 Dec 1996 : Column 1128
I would say to all hon. Members that the new clause has been tabled by all its signatories because we believe that it is the right thing to do by the Scottish people. I hope that hon. Members on both sides of the House will find it in their hearts to give us some support.
Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.
The House divided: Ayes 25, Noes 202.
Tellers for the Ayes:
Tellers for the Noes:
Question accordingly negatived.
4 Dec 1996 : Column 1129
Amendments made: No. 80, in page 1, line 15, leave out
No. 81, in page 1, line 20, at end insert--
Sir Jerry Wiggin (Weston-super-Mare):
I beg to move amendment No. 58, in page 3, line 18, at end insert 'or
AYES
Alton, David
Benn, Tony
Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE)
Connarty, Michael
Cunningham, Ms R (Perth Kinross)
Ewing, Mrs Margaret
Foster, Don (Bath)
Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Mon)
Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham)
Kennedy, Charles (Ross C & S)
Kirkwood, Archy
Llwyd, Elfyn
Loyden, Eddie
Lynne, Ms Liz
Maclennan, Robert
Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll Bute)
Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby)
Nicholson, Miss Emma (W Devon)
Rendel, David
Salmond, Alex
Skinner, Dennis
Taylor, Sir Teddy
Wallace, James
Wigley, Dafydd
Wise, Mrs Audrey
Mr. Dennis Canavan and
Mr. Andrew Welsh.
NOES
Ainsworth, Peter (E Surrey)
Aitken, Jonathan
Amess, David
Arbuthnot, James
Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham)
Ashby, David
Atkins, Robert
Baker, Nicholas (N Dorset)
Baldry, Tony
Banks, Matthew (Southport)
Banks, Robert (Harrogate)
Bates, Michael
Batiste, Spencer
Beresford, Sir Paul
Biffen, John
Boswell, Tim
Bottomley, Mrs Virginia
Bowden, Sir Andrew
Bowis, John
Brazier, Julian
Bright, Sir Graham
Brooke, Peter
Browning, Mrs Angela
Bruce, Ian (S Dorset)
Budgen, Nicholas
Burns, Simon
Butler, Peter
Butterfill, John
Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Linc'n)
Carrington, Matthew
Carttiss, Michael
Chapman, Sir Sydney
Clappison, James
Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe)
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coe, Sebastian
Congdon, David
Conway, Derek
Coombs, Anthony (Wyre F)
Coombs, Simon (Swindon)
Couchman, James
Cran, James
Davis, David (Boothferry)
Day, Stephen
Deva, Nirj Joseph
Dorrell, Stephen
Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James
Dover, Den
Eggar, Tim
Elletson, Harold
Evans, David (Welwyn Hatf'ld)
Evans, Jonathan (Brecon)
Evans, Nigel (Ribble V)
Evans, Roger (Monmouth)
Evennett, David
Faber, David
Fabricant, Michael
Fenner, Dame Peggy
Field, Barry (Isle of Wight)
Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring)
Freeman, Roger
French, Douglas
Fry, Sir Peter
Gale, Roger
Gallie, Phil
Garnier, Edward
Gill, Christopher
Gillan, Mrs Cheryl
Goodlad, Alastair
Gorman, Mrs Teresa
Gorst, Sir John
Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)
Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N)
Grylls, Sir Michael
Hague, William
Hamilton, Sir Archibald
Hamilton, Neil (Tatton)
Hargreaves, Andrew
Harris, David
Haselhurst, Sir Alan
Hawkins, Nick
Hawksley, Warren
Heald, Oliver
Hendry, Charles
Heseltine, Michael
Hicks, Sir Robert
Higgins, Sir Terence
Hill, Sir James (Southampton Test)
Hogg, Douglas (Grantham)
Horam, John
Howard, Michael
Howell, David (Guildf'd)
Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W)
Hunt, David (Wirral W)
Hunt, Sir John (Ravensb'ne)
Hunter, Andrew
Jack, Michael
Jenkin, Bernard (Colchester N)
Jessel, Toby
Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey
Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N)
Jones, Robert B (W Herts)
Jopling, Michael
King, Tom
Kirkhope, Timothy
Knapman, Roger
Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash)
Knight, Greg (Derby N)
Lait, Mrs Jacqui
Lawrence, Sir Ivan
Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark
Lidington, David
Lilley, Peter
Lloyd, Sir Peter (Fareham)
Luff, Peter
Lyell, Sir Nicholas
MacGregor, John
MacKay, Andrew
Maclean, David
McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick
Madel, Sir David
Maitland, Lady Olga
Malone, Gerald
Mans, Keith
Marland, Paul
Marshall, John (Hendon S)
Martin, David (Portsmouth S)
Mawhinney, Dr Brian
Mayhew, Sir Patrick
Merchant, Piers
Mills, Iain
Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling)
Mitchell, Sir David (NW Hants)
Moate, Sir Roger
Monro, Sir Hector
Montgomery, Sir Fergus
Moss, Malcolm
Neubert, Sir Michael
Newton, Tony
Nicholls, Patrick
Nicholson, David (Taunton)
Norris, Steve
Oppenheim, Phillip
Ottaway, Richard
Page, Richard
Paice, James
Patnick, Sir Irvine
Pawsey, James
Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth
Pickles, Eric
Porter, David
Rathbone, Tim
Richards, Rod
Robathan, Andrew
Roberts, Sir Wyn
Robertson, Raymond S (Ab'd'n S)
Robinson, Mark (Somerton)
Ross, William (E Lond'y)
Sackville, Tom
Shaw, David (Dover)
Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey)
Shepherd, Sir Colin (Heref'd)
Shersby, Sir Michael
Sims, Sir Roger
Skeet, Sir Trevor
Spencer, Sir Derek
Spicer, Sir Michael (S Worcs)
Squire, Robin (Hornchurch)
Stanley, Sir John
Stephen, Michael
Stern, Michael
Streeter, Gary
Sumberg, David
Sykes, John
Taylor, Ian (Esher)
Taylor, John M (Solihull)
Temple-Morris, Peter
Thomason, Roy
Thompson, Sir Donald (Calder V)
Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N)
Townsend, Cyril D (Bexl'yh'th)
Tracey, Richard
Tredinnick, David
Trend, Michael
Trotter, Neville
Twinn, Dr Ian
Viggers, Peter
Walker, Bill (N Tayside)
Waller, Gary
Waterson, Nigel
Watts, John
Wells, Bowen
Whittingdale, John
Widdecombe, Miss Ann
Wiggin, Sir Jerry
Wilkinson, John
Willetts, David
Wilshire, David
Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton)
Winterton, Nicholas (Macclesf'ld)
Wood, Timothy
Yeo, Tim
Mr. Gyles Brandreth and
Mr. Patrick McLoughlin.
'to which section 1 of this Act does not apply'.
'(3A) In paragraph (ac) (self-loading and pump-action smooth-bore guns) after the word "not" there shall be inserted the words "an air weapon or".'.--[Mr. Ottaway.]
Amendments made: No. 90, in page 2, line 21, after 'have' insert 'the instrument'.
No. 91, in page 2, line 22, leave out 'a slaughtering instrument' and insert 'it'.--[Mr. Ottaway.]
Amendments made: No. 92, in page 2, line 29, after 'have' insert 'the firearm'.
No. 93, in page 2, line 30, leave out 'a firearm' and insert 'it'.--[Mr. Ottaway.]
Amendments made: No. 94, in page 2, line 38, after 'have' insert 'the firearm'.
No. 95, in page 2, line 38, leave out 'a firearm' and insert 'it'.--[Mr. Ottaway.]
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