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5.25 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mr. John Bowis): First, I should like to thank everyone who has taken part in the debate, in particular the Opposition spokeswoman, the hon. Member for Hampstead and Highgate (Ms Jackson). The last time we met across the Dispatch Box, I was concerned about the time taken up in the debate. Today, I congratulate her on doing a "Patrick Moore", given the speed with which she delivered her speech. We can now get on with the rest of the debate, having had that whirr of tirade and ideological flourish from the hon. Lady.
This has been a useful and revealing debate. We have seen ideology flow back through the window of the parliamentary Labour party as well as heard genuine concern expressed by hon. Members on both sides of the House. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State went out of his way to answer those concerns, and I shall try to do the same.
I should like to respond to the points made by the hon. Member for Tyne Bridge (Mr. Clelland)--I was tempted to call him the hon. Member for swing bridge. I believe that he is confused on the swing bridge proposal. The proposal to remove the duty to maintain and repair the machinery of the open moving platform on the swing bridge came from the Port of Tyne Authority. He can rest assured that it is not part of our proposal, and will not be a consequence of the privatisation.
I always listen to the right hon. Member for Jarrow (Mr. Dixon) with great respect and interest. He raised a number of points based on his knowledge of the area, and expressed particular concern about the assets of the port. There is no evidence of asset stripping at the ports.
Mr. Bowis:
Perhaps the hon. Lady would like to provide any evidence she has of such asset stripping. Evidence suggests the contrary: in each case, the new regime has led to the development and improvement of facilities. My right hon. Friend was able to quote from newspapers and reports that highlight that fact. I repeat: any gain on land disposed of during the first 10 years after privatisation, whether by way of sale or long lease, will be subject to a clawback levy, which will be payable on a sliding scale. It will be set at 25 per cent. for the first five years, 20 per cent. for the sixth and seventh years and 10 per cent. for the eighth to 10th years.
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The right hon. Member for Jarrow also asked what was the point of representation. The point is that the Government listen. I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman listened carefully to what my right hon. Friend said, so he will be aware of the evidence that my right hon. Friend took on board views expressed in those representations. He made specific pledges in terms of the employment and pension interests of the work force at the port. In that regard, he has offered to listen to representations on those matters. He also acknowledged that he did not accept certain other representations and gave the reasons why they were not relevant--either they were unnecessary, because of previous legislation, or they would have damaged the future health of the port.
The hon. Member for Oxford, East (Mr. Smith) made three main points. He, too, talked about consultation and, like other hon. Members, balanced the numbers of representations received. I have to tell him that the overall number of letters and representations was small, and I hope he will not be too disappointed to learn that 129 came in a standard form that had clearly been prepared and supplied by the authority itself. He may want to know how I can be so sure of that--it was because so many of them came in a Port of Tyne Authority envelope. There was evidence of the authority's view and we looked carefully at that view and at the others that were expressed.
The hon. Gentleman expressed concern about the uncertainty, to which my response is, "Fine--so let's get on with it." The sooner the order has been passed and we can move to the next step, consulting everyone as we go, the sooner we can end that uncertainty.
The hon. Gentleman said that this privatisation was being done for the sake of privatisation, but that is not true. It is being done for the sake of the port of Tyne, because we believe that it can be managed even better in the private sector.
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Tynemouth (Mr. Trotter) for his rigorous analysis. He looked with a questioning eye at the whole proposal and came down in its favour. He pointed out that the port of Tyne is no longer in the list of top ports and showed that, although Nissan and other inward investment projects have shown the potential in the area, it needs a new boost.
My hon. Friend confirmed that employees are well protected by legislation and made an especially important point about employee share ownership. That is one of the great benefits of the proposal, because without shares there can be no employee share ownership. He rightly highlighted that as a benefit to those working in the port. He also mentioned the disposal of operational land. That cannot, of course, be disposed of without the approval of the planning authority.
My hon. Friend referred to fair charges and the right of appeal to the Secretary of State, and pointed out that that right has not been exercised in respect of those ports that have been privatised so far. That is an encouraging message and my hon. Friend's analysis was fair.
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My hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Mr. Atkinson) said, rightly, that we have heard it all before--we hear Opposition Members' shock horror and their ideological frisson and then everything turns out well. In a few years' time, they will turn around and say that they were never really against the plan--a few years after that, they will try to claim parentage as well.
All hon. Members on both sides of the House share a wish to see the port of Tyne flourish. We believe that that is most likely to occur if the port is in the private sector. That is no criticism of the port of Tyne's past or its recent record--it is simply a fact. The port can do better, it will do better and, with this order, we will make it happen sooner.
Question put:--
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