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Defence Exports
5. Mr. Congdon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what measures his Department takes to assist British firms to win defence exports. [8975]
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The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Mr. James Arbuthnot): My Department's defence export services organisation exists to provide British defence exporters with the strongest possible Government support, within the framework of our defence, security and foreign policies.
Mr. Congdon: Does my hon. Friend agree that if foreign countries wish to bid for our defence exports, they should ensure that their markets are equally open to our exports? Does he also agree that Hunting Aviation does a good job in maintaining engines for the Ministry of Defence and should, therefore, be given equal access to the Canadian market?
Mr. Arbuthnot: I will accept both of my hon. Friend's questions. Protectionism is extremely bad for the defence industry worldwide. We need a two-way street in the defence exports and imports of the United States, Canada and other countries. I also agree that Hunting Aviation's work for the Ministry of Defence is first class. We are evaluating a competition for T56 Aero engines. We have not yet reached a decision on that, but I entirely agree that we need a two-way street in exports and imports of defence industry work.
Mrs. Anne Campbell: When does the Minister expect to award the maintenance contracts for the RAF Tristar fleet, since that is one of the contracts that will have an enormous impact on the ability of Marshalls in my constituency to continue its exports of defence equipment?
Mrs. Peacock: Can my hon. Friend tell the House the value of our defence exports for the year 1995-96?
Mr. Arbuthnot: In 1994, we took something like 14 per cent of the world export share. In 1995, it was nearly 20 per cent. In 1996, we expect it to be up on that and, in 1997, we know that it will be significantly higher even than that. Exports were worth something like £5 billion in the last year and that is because Government policies have helped British industry to become lean and competitive. We produce excellent equipment at a very good price for overseas markets, as well as for the defence of the country.
Mr. Spellar: Does the Minister accept that exports need a solid domestic base? Does he think that our exports have been helped by the appalling delay and shambles in the Bowman project? Can he tell us how he got into such a mess and, more important, how he intends to get out of it?
Mr. Arbuthnot: Not only exports but the entire defence of the country need a solid defence base. That does not need a strategic defence review, with all the uncertainty that the Labour party would inject into our armed forces and defence industry. Bowman is an extremely important competition for the country. It is an interesting competition because it is constantly chasing a technology that is evolving so rapidly that it must not be allowed to become obsolete before it goes into service. We shall evaluate industry's new proposals to produce a
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single consortium, and we expect to make a decision on that round about March. We intend to get the Bowman equipment into service by 2002, and we intend to make sure that there is as much competition as possible so that the project will achieve good value for money for the British taxpayer.
Mr. Garnier: Does my hon. Friend accept that, for my constituency, one of the most important elements of the defence exports business is a company called King Trailers Ltd., which manufacturers trailers for military and civilian purposes? The company has endeavoured over the past few years to export trailers to foreign Ministries of Defence. It has had some encouragement from my hon. Friend's Department, but it needs all the encouragement that it can get. Will he visit the company in the next few months and give it the support that it deserves?
Mr. Arbuthnot: I not only accept but know that, because my hon. and learned Friend has raised the subject of the company with me on several occasions. I will happily accept his invitation to visit, but if I may, I would rather do so after the election, if I continue in this job.
Armed Forces (Manpower)
6. Mr. Jack Thompson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence for how many consecutive months up to the most recent month for which figures are available there has been a shortfall in each of the armed forces' manpower. [8976]
Mr. Soames: Up to 1 November 1996--the latest figures available--the naval service has had a manpower shortfall for four consecutive months, the Army for 16 months, and the RAF has been undermanned for 12 consecutive months.
Mr. Thompson: In view of the Minister's previous answers to questions on this matter, has he read the Defence Committee report, which argues that the legacy of undermanning in the Army will affect the Army's efficiency for many years to come? How do our allies in NATO react to such undermanning, given our NATO responsibilities? Is that not an example of ministerial mismanagement and incompetence in defence matters?
Mr. Soames: I know that the hon. Gentleman is one of the poor figures who are snaffled in the Tea Room by the hon. Member for South Shields (Dr. Clark) and given a question to table. He could not possibly mean that question.
Mr. Soames: No, I will not withdraw.
The French have recently announced that they will not only rejoin NATO, but intend to model their armed forces on the British Army. Is that a symbol of our incompetence? All the time we hear that socialist whining and whingeing. The British forces have swept to victory in the Gulf, in northern and southern Iraq, in Angola, Rwanda, Kuwait and the former Yugoslavia, and still the Opposition ask whether our forces are capable of doing
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Sir Jim Spicer:
My hon. Friend will know that, for many years, the Junior Leaders regiments provided not only quality but quantity to our armed forces. Can he inform the House when a final decision will be made to reinstate them?
Mr. Soames:
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that issue. He knows better than most that the supreme quality of the non-commissioned officers in the British Army and the other two services depends largely on the extraordinarily successful Junior Leaders regiments. Everyone regrets that they no longer exist. I am happy to inform my hon. Friend that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will arrive at a decision about the timing of the new arrangements for Junior Leaders shortly.
Dr. Reid:
In wishing you, Madam Speaker, and the Minister a happy new year, I must say how deeply Opposition Members regret press reports that the Minister will not be able to defend his record on those issues during the general election campaign because Tory central office has banned him from appearing on television as he is too much of a toff. The Opposition deprecate the politics of envy. Will the Minister defend his record now as he will not be able to do so during the election campaign? Will he confirm that the Government have cut our force levels by one third, have spent £1,500 million doing so, and have ended up short in every service? Is it not true that our forces are under strength and over stretched and that the general election is long overdue?
Mr. Soames:
Before reciprocating the hon. Gentleman's new year wishes, I draw your attention, Madam Speaker, to an advertisement that appeared in an impertinent magazine entitled Defence News. It is signed by the hon. Gentleman, who described himself as Minister for the shadow armed forces. In view of those strictures, perhaps you should have a word with the editor of Defence News, Madam Speaker.
The hon. Gentleman's portrayal of the armed forces is a travesty. Everyone knows that we have the best armed forces in the world, although they are over stretched, very busy and have manpower problems. It is a volunteer service and we cannot compel people to join, but we are lucky in that those personnel we have are the best in the world. The hon. Gentleman does them no service by portraying them as he does.
7. Sir John Cope:
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many British jobs are sustained by his Department's defence contracts; and if he will make a statement. [8977]
Mr. Arbuthnot:
We estimate that in 1994-95--the latest year for which figures are available--my Department's contracts for equipment and other goods and services sustained some 270,000 jobs in the United Kingdom. We estimate that a further 90,000 United Kingdom jobs depended on defence exports.
Sir John Cope:
My hon. Friend has just agreed that the defence base, and hence MOD contracts, is a necessary
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Mr. Arbuthnot:
I will indeed. An interesting letter has been received from the right hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Ashdown), who attacked the possibility of selling Westland Lynx helicopters to Indonesia. If he is prepared to do that to his constituency, I dread to think what he would do to the country.
Mr. Madden:
As both India and Pakistan have nuclear capability and the long and unresolved conflict between the two countries over Kashmir makes the region one of the most exceptionally dangerous in the world, how does the Minister justify British sales to India of Hawk 100 aircraft, which clearly could, and probably will, be used to suppress the popular insurrection by the people of Kashmir in pursuit of their right to self-determination?
Mr. Arbuthnot:
Article 51 of the United Nations charter gives every country the right to defend itself. We have very close relations with India and, fortunately, also with Pakistan. We shall do everything that we can to preserve the stability of those regions. We shall not try to undermine our defence industry--unlike the hon. Gentleman, who would clearly like to undermine it by preventing exports to countries that have been friendly to the United Kingdom for many years. I suggest that he has a word with his Front Bench about that, but unfortunately I fear that he represents the views of many Labour Members.
Mr. Mans:
Does my hon. Friend agree that one way not to sustain jobs in the defence industry would be to carry out a defence review, which would delay procurement of much-needed weapons systems? Does he further agree that it is particularly worrying to workers in the defence industry in Lancashire that the Labour party has made no commitment whatever to exclude the Eurofighter project from its defence review, which means that it could be cancelled, or at the least the Royal Air Force would not get the number that it wants?
Mr. Arbuthnot:
My hon. Friend puts his finger on a point of huge importance. The instability of a strategic defence review would undermine the certainty of our negotiations in the Eurofighter project and would be damaging not only to this country but to the entire European defence industry. If the Labour party were able to bring in a strategic defence review, that would undermine not only this country's defence industry but the aims of Europe to bring its industry together and to be able to compete properly to the world market. My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point.
Mr. Grocott:
Is the Minister aware of the announcement made last Friday of 270 redundancies at GKN Defence in my constituency? That is 270 out of a total work force of 700. Those are skilled people who have given years of service to the defence needs of the country. Does he recall his letter to me of 13 December, in which he turned down a suggestion from GKN that it provide 87 armoured vehicles? If that contract had gone
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Mr. Arbuthnot:
I understand the points that the hon. Gentleman made and I considered the decision very carefully indeed because of those points. Obviously, we regret hugely any loss of defence jobs or other jobs, but it is true of any company that, in the long term, it has to match the number of its employees to its order books. The Warrior system that GKN proposed to us for early purchase has been hugely successful not only in this country but in Bosnia, the Gulf, Kuwait and around the world, but in the long term we decided that our requirement was not sufficiently well established to enable us to accept its very interesting and in many ways attractive proposal. GKN is an extremely successful company. We have seen recently an order from Qatar for Piranha vehicles. We know that there are plenty of prospects for other Warrior vehicles throughout the world, so let us not attempt in any way to undermine the possibility of GKN winning many other orders elsewhere.
Sir Anthony Grant:
When coming to what I hope will be an early decision on the Tristar contract, will my hon. Friend bear in mind what I have repeatedly told him: that what is at risk is not merely jobs in Cambridgeshire but, for the nation, the remarkable expertise of the Marshalls company, which has been built up over many years?
Mr. Arbuthnot:
My hon. Friend has, on many occasions, raised this competition with me. I shall certainly bear in mind the points that he makes when I come to a decision, which will be very soon.
Mr. Murphy:
Contrary to what the hon. Member for Wyre (Mr. Mans) just said, does the Minister accept that it is the firm intention of the Labour Government to be elected later this year to be absolutely committed to Eurofighter? Secondly, instead of talking about Yeovil, will the Minister reflect on what my hon. Friend the Member for The Wrekin (Mr. Grocott) said: that nearly 300 highly skilled and well-paid jobs have been lost in my hon. Friend's constituency? Is the Minister telling the House that it is too late to stop this cruel blow to Shropshire, to the company and to a dedicated work force?
Mr. Arbuthnot:
No, I am saying that a strategic defence review--the point with which the hon. Gentleman started--would undermine the stability of our defence industry. In addition, it would undermine our credibility in international negotiations over matters such as the multirole armoured vehicle, the Horizon frigate and crucially, at this important stage of the project, the Eurofighter. How can we have a strategic defence review--unless the hon. Gentleman is saying that he would exclude the Eurofighter from it, which would make it pretty meaningless--and continue to negotiate sensibly with countries that are partners in the Eurofighter project? The answer is that there cannot be such a review on that basis.
Mr. Atkins:
Does my hon. Friend recognise the importance to jobs in Lancashire of British Aerospace,
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Mr. Arbuthnot:
I acknowledge with gratitude and admiration the work that is done by Lancashire Conservative Members. When I was last in my right hon. Friend's constituency, he drew my attention to a number of competitions involving the defence industry. By contrast, he drew my attention to the approach of the hon. Member for Preston (Mrs. Wise) to the export of Hawk aircraft to Indonesia. My right hon. Friend is completely right. The Labour party wishes to be all things to all men. It wishes in some areas to encourage exports, but in reality it knows that it wants to destroy the British defence industry.
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