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Mr. David Lidington (Aylesbury): I am grateful for the opportunity to speak briefly on the important amendment moved by the hon. Member for Sherwood (Mr. Tipping). The hon. Member for Darlington (Mr. Milburn) gave the game away in terms of his philosophical approach when he talked about the public
footing the bill for tax reliefs or tax allowances. It is worth reminding him that we are not talking about handouts from taxpayers, but about a change in the law that would allow certain individual taxpayers to keep more of their own money and not have their assets taxed by the state as much as they would otherwise have been.
Mr. Clifton-Brown: My hon. Friend may be confusing two issues. One is the payment for the habitat scheme, to which I think that the hon. Member for Darlington (Mr. Milburn) was referring. The other is set out in the clause on exemptions from inheritance tax.
Mr. Lidington: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for putting me right. I am, indeed, referring to the inheritance tax reliefs in clause 92.
My concern about the amendment of the hon. Member for Sherwood derives partly from the conservation efforts being made in my constituency and in other parts of the Chiltern hills and partly from the list of enactments in clause 92(3). Clause 92(4) empowers the Treasury to
First, I will deal with clause 92(3)(a) and (c). Paragraph (3)(a) refers to regulation 3(1) of the Habitat (Water Fringe) Regulations 1994.
Mr. Clifton-Brown:
Is my hon. Friend aware that there are six such designated areas under clause 92? The Committee may be interested to know that they are as follows: the York, Derwent and Rye system; the Ribble tributaries; the Shropshire meres, which are especially important for people who live in the Welsh Marches; the River Beult, which I gather is in Kent; the Flapton Ley, which I believe is in Devon; and the upper Avon, Wylye and Nadder valleys in Hampshire and Wiltshire.
Mr. Lidington:
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. Inland river systems sustain a great variety of wildlife, but they have come under increasing pressure in recent decades as a result of changes in farming techniques, improved drainage and the greater use of pesticides. It is important that we should do our utmost to conserve the flora and fauna that remain in those rich habitats.
By their nature, water fringes, especially when they are near large population centres, attract many people as sites for picnicking, camping and other recreational pursuits. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury (Mr. Clifton-Brown) has, like me, enjoyed a family walk along a country river or around a lake. His mention of the Shropshire meres reminded me of such an afternoon in the company of my wife--and a very pleasant outing it was.
Mr. Nicholas Winterton:
My hon. Friend mentioned meres, but what about canals? I refer in particular to the Cheshire ring and the Macclesfield canal. What about the flora and fauna there? Will he comment on that in adding to his excellent contribution?
Mr. Lidington:
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the benefit of his customary detailed knowledge of the area that he represents.
My hon. Friend the Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury informed the Committee that regulation 3(1) of the Habitat (Water Fringe) Regulations 1994 does not apply to the canal systems in Cheshire mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (Mr. Winterton). However, statutory instruments, by their nature, can easily be extended and this one could be extended to cover more sites than were included in the original Department of the Environment list. It is certainly conceivable that the canals mentioned could come within the scope of subsection (3)(a) if the Government of the day decided to amend the provisions. My hon. Friend made an important point about canals, which sustain a variety of wild plants and animals. To his knowledge of the waterways of Cheshire, I add mine of the Aylesbury and Wendover arms of the Grand Union canal which both support wildlife and attract people who live and work in towns and want to get out and enjoy the countryside.
This debate forces us to examine carefully the inevitable tension between the interests of conservation and of the rights of public access to recreation in the countryside. Water fringes are vulnerable habitats, but that is even more true of the saltmarshes mentioned in clause 92(3)(c). I do not know whether my hon. Friend the Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury has been able to ascertain a list of those sites covered by the Habitat (Salt-Marsh) Regulations 1994.
Mr. Patrick Thompson (Norwich, North):
Mention of salt marshes makes me think of the coast of north Norfolk. I am not expert on this part of the Bill. Can my hon. Friend explain whether coastal saltmarshes would be affected by the regulations?
Mr. Lidington:
The salt marshes of north Norfolk and the Wash would appear, at least in principle, to be eligible for inclusion in the Habitat (Salt-Marsh) Regulations 1994. If they are not among those sites which would be affected directly if the amendment were passed, they could be affected in the foreseeable future.
Mr. Tipping:
Does the hon. Gentleman accept that access to saltmarshes is already provided under one of the agri-environment schemes--the scheme on public access to environmentally sensitive areas? Does he agree that the balance between protecting the landscape and the environment and allowing public access is what is exercising the mind of the Committee?
Mr. Lidington:
I wholly agree with the hon. Gentleman that the test for the Committee is to get the balance right. It is my contention that that is best achieved by examining the terms of schemes and making arrangements for access to sites rather than by incorporating the rather broad language of the amendment in the Finance Bill.
Mr. Clifton-Brown:
My hon. Friend asked me whether I had been able to obtain any information about the saltmarsh option. Unlike the water fringe option, which is for inland waterways--fresh water--at six designated sites, the aim of the saltmarsh option is to create and extend areas of saltmarsh on suitable land, consistent with the provision of effective and sustainable coastal defence. That might be helpful to my hon. Friend.
Mr. Lidington:
Indeed. We have only to consider the pressure on saltmarshes, as on inland waterway systems,
Mr. Patrick Thompson:
I am becoming genuinely interested in the point about public access. There is a distinction between public access and total exclusion of the public. Is there any halfway measure under which restricted access could be allowed, either now or in the future? I know that certain categories of people are allowed into certain special conservation areas. Is that relevant to the clause?
Mr. Lidington:
My hon. Friend makes an important point. One of my quarrels with the term "reasonable access" in the amendment is that it does not seem to allow sufficiently for the dilemma that my hon. Friend has illustrated.
I return to the point that I made to the Committee earlier. If a public access agreement is drafted which is specific to a particular site, it will allow for access to be given to biologists and genuine researchers. It would allow the public to be barred from sites at particular times of the year, in the same way as public access to the Fleet lagoon in Dorset is strictly limited when the wading birds are likely to be nesting. Detailed site-specific arrangements could then be made. My fear is that the language adopted by the hon. Member for Sherwood would allow public access to continue and to grow, perhaps to the detriment of particular sites.
Mr. Clifton-Brown:
My hon. Friends have raised an important point. Of course, the scheme is time-limited to 20 years, so any public access would be prescriptive rather than statutory. If it were prescriptive, would it be possible to limit public access to certain times of the year? To take my stone curlew nesting example, it is important to keep the public away during the nesting months of April and May. Does my hon. Friend think that that would be a good idea?
Mr. Lidington:
That would be a good idea. Even within a public access agreement for an individual site, it would be desirable to allow a degree of discretion to the managers or those responsible for supervising conservation on a particular site. For example, if a particular habitat is used by migratory birds during their flight north or south in spring or autumn, it would surely be sensible to allow a measure of discretion to those responsible for conservation so that if migration was early or late in a particular year, they could bring forward or put back the period of public access in the interests of conservation. My hon. Friend's point strengthens my view that the language of the amendment is inappropriate.
I move from new section 124C(3)(a) and (c) to the subsection which, I confess, troubles me most. New section 124C(3)(b) refers to the Habitat (Former
Set-Aside Land) Regulations 1994. As every member of the Committee will appreciate, set-aside land is found in every part of the country. No one knows for certain how the scheme is likely to develop. There have been significant changes during the past 12 months, as a consequence of the impact on the European beef market of the BSE crisis since March 1996. That brings me away from the coasts and back towards my constituency and neighbouring constituencies and to the Chiltern hills.
"by order made by statutory instrument amend the list of enactments in subsection (3) above."
I shall return later to the principle of enabling powers, and of giving a further such power to the Government.
8.30 pm
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