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Mr. Stern: That point gives rise to an interesting speculation. If a bottle of lemon squash is confiscated by an officer because he believes it to contain alcohol, will he be obliged to submit it for analysis, or will he be able simply to pour it away? In the former case, if the bottle is subsequently found to contain lemon squash, the officer could be liable because he has confiscated property unnecessarily.

Mr. Kirkhope: I do not want to get into a long legal discussion about the issue, but the Bill makes it plain that officers will have to act reasonably. If they can show that they have done so, they will be protected. I thank my hon. Friend for raising an interesting point that may be gone into in further detail in Committee.

Alcopops have been mentioned in the debate. I have had some dealings with the Portman Group over some time and I am pleased that there is such a group. I am also pleased that it has set up a new independent panel under the chairmanship of Laurence Shurman, the former banking ombudsman, to take a close look at the marketing of such products. I welcome that and the present voluntary code, which seems to be working to some degree.

Having said that, I personally have deep concerns about alcopops. Whatever is said by the manufacturers, the mere wording of some of the titles of the products can appeal to young people. We should be careful about anything that, even covertly, encourages young people to drink alcohol. I know that I am a bit old-fashioned, but my connections with the brewing industry have taught me the care and professionalism that go into the production of beer. I find a fruit drink injected with chemical alcohol to be an aberration and I am not keen on those products or the way in which they are marketed.

However, we have a voluntary code, and the Government are undertaking careful monitoring of its success or otherwise. I hope that the monitoring will be active, and that, if we find that those products continue to blossom in number and in the luridness of their titles and appeal to young people, we will be prepared to take action against them. That is an important issue that concerns many people.

The Bill will also give the police power to confiscate alcohol in any public place. My hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Lady Olga Maitland) was right to

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refer to trains, because some people are concerned about drinking on public transport and in stations. I can assure the House that the provision is widely drawn and I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point wishes it to apply to such areas.

The police will have the powers available to them whether the youngsters are in a park, sitting on a bench in the street, congregating around a bus station, a fish and chip shop, a shopping mall or even a cinema, or if they are trespassing in someone's garden or on school grounds at times when they should not be there. The police, as my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point has explained, will also have the power to confiscate alcohol from those who are over 18 if it is likely that the adult will give the alcohol to a young person in his or her company. That will prevent police powers from being frustrated. One can imagine that, without such a power, a mixed group of teenagers would quickly pass any alcohol that they were drinking to the oldest member of the group--who might be 18 or above--to keep until the police had gone away. The provision enabling the police to confiscate alcohol from those aged over 18 takes care of such mischief.

The power to demand the name and address of any person from whom the police confiscate alcohol is an important ingredient in a common-sense measure. We know from the initiatives in Weymouth--to which my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset (Mr. Bruce) and I have referred--that many parents are appalled to learn that their children are experimenting with alcohol, and this provision will allow the police to draw the matter to their attention. It is an offence under the Bill to refuse either to hand over the alcohol or to give one's name and address when requested to do so. This offence is subject to a level 2 fine--currently £500. The Bill also gives the police a power of arrest. That should ensure that youngsters do not refuse to hand over the alcoholic drink. Without that power, the police could be placed in the difficult situation of trying to remove alcohol from youngsters, which could degenerate into an unseemly tussle.

Although the Bill rightly backs the provision with an offence so that the law can be enforced, the whole object of the Bill is to avoid making young people into criminals. Even the best of youngsters can act unwisely--perhaps many hon. Members occasionally acted unwisely in their younger days. I am sure that few of the hon. Members here today are at present acting unwisely--although perhaps the hon. Member for Littleborough and Saddleworth (Mr. Davies) was slightly unwise to suggest that the doom-and-gloom merchants would prevail.

The Liberal Democrats try to have things all ways. On the one hand, the hon. Member for Littleborough and Saddleworth says that he will support the measure, but on the other hand, he wrings his hands and says that it will not work because the police will not want to know about it. We want to take a more optimistic approach to the legislation. It may be refined further in Committee, but I believe that it will work and that my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point has done the nation a great service by introducing the Bill.

Mr. Ian Bruce: I accept that the hon. Member for Littleborough and Saddleworth (Mr. Davies) has said that the motion to legalise drugs at the Liberal Democrat conference was aimed at setting up a commission, but the

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speeches made at that conference were wholly different. Indeed, a Liberal Democrat council leader and several of his colleagues went to the press to say that they thought legalising of drugs might well be the right way forward--at the same time as that council was attempting to persuade people not to go down that route by spending money on life education caravans and things of that nature. Frankly, the Liberal Democrats cannot have it both ways. They give mixed messages to teenagers.

Mr. Kirkhope: Perhaps those remarks were on a Monday; it is now Friday. I cannot explain it further than that.

I have mentioned that youngsters can act unwisely, but I should put that in context. The vast majority of our young people are law-abiding, conscientious and public and community-spirited, and we are lucky to have such young people. I do not want anybody to think that, in proposing the Bill, my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point is in some way generalising about the behaviour of young people. We are talking about a small number who are disruptive and a nuisance, and they do nothing to give credit to their contemporaries. I hope that the Bill may lead to fewer young people coming before the courts, because youngsters will not go on to commit other offences when drunk. They should quickly learn that they are not going to be permitted to drink in public in future, and this tough line is a good thing in my view.

The Bill is drawn in general terms and, as has been pointed out, would in theory enable a police officer to confiscate a bottle of wine from a family who were picnicking if it appeared likely that one of the children was to have a sip. My hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point has said, and I reiterate, that that is not the intention. The purpose of the Bill is to prevent troublesome behaviour, and the police are expected to use their discretion when they use the measure. There is no duty on them to enforce the provisions, and there will be times when it will be sensible for the police to turn a blind eye to youngsters having the occasional drink--that could be for a number of reasons--but the power must be available when needed.

Of course, it is not only youngsters who have alcohol problems; many adults do as well, and it can lead them into trouble also. It might be thought that the police should have the power to confiscate alcohol from any person who is drinking in a public place. I can fully understand the reasons people have for that view, but the difference between adult drinking and juvenile drinking is that adult drinking normally takes place either in licensed premises or in one's own home. A licence holder may refuse to admit, or may expel from his or her premises, anyone who is drunk, violent, quarrelsome or disorderly.

Lady Olga Maitland: My hon. Friend is touching on an important point about adult drinking in a public place. He rightly says that most adult drinking is done in the privacy of one's own home, but the public are molested by drunkards who walk around carrying cans near Westminster and in Trafalgar square. I hope that he will review the situation and give the police the power to confiscate those drinks.

Mr. Kirkhope: I do not want to be tempted down the route that my right hon. Friend the Minister of State, Home Office, has attempted to tackle. It is important to

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note that there are many provisions and byelaws available to deal with adults in these circumstances, and I want to contain my remarks to young people.

As well as the byelaws in relation to adults, there is also a model byelaw, designed by the Home Office, to assist local authorities to make it an offence to continue to drink alcohol in designated public places after being asked to stop by a police officer. We have agreed 42 applications for the model byelaw, and others are under consideration. The byelaw has been effective in preventing public drunkenness and misbehaviour in certain city centres. Byelaws must apply to those of all ages, and it would be difficult for them to apply only to those under 18.

I conclude by repeating my congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point on proposing an excellent piece of legislation. It is comparatively simple, and has only two clauses, but Bills of only two clauses often have an enormous impact on our society. The Bill will have an enormous impact--not only in its direct effect but in the clear message that it will send to young and old people alike that certain things are no longer tolerable. We must allow the police the necessary powers to prevent those things happening. I commend the Bill to the House.

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