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Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield): Will the Minister reassure me and the House that the register is not only for paedophiles but is a register of sex offenders? He knows from my recent questions to him that in this
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country child prostitution is rife and successful prosecutions against those who entice young people into prostitution are minimal--there have been only six in the past five years. To be effective, a register must be backed by good detection and criminal proceedings.
Mr. Maclean: Of course the hon. Gentleman is right. On his first point, the Bill is properly called the Sex Offenders Bill. For shorthand, we have tended to call it the "paedophiles Bill" and to talk about the paedophiles register, but schedule 1 of the Bill includes not only offences against children, but other sexual offences, including rape.
Mr. Rod Richards (Clwyd, North-West): My right hon. Friend said that paedophiles were in a special category. Does he accept that paedophiles are mentally sick people for whom there is no effective treatment, so they should be detained indefinitely? Will he consider that point, and do so in the context of amending the mental health Acts, which effectively would do away ultimately with the need for a register?
Mr. Maclean: I hear what my hon. Friend says. Some paedophiles may fall into that category, but I do not think that all could be defined as such--although I suspect that we would all say that those who kill someone else must be sick to do such a thing. One of the difficulties of dealing with hardened paedophiles is that they do not consider their activities to be wrong; hardened paedophiles believe that the rest of us have set unfair parameters to their sexual activity. They do not believe that having sex with children is wrong--many of them believe that it is a right thing to do and that we are the wrong ones for trying to restrain that activity. That is what makes them especially dangerous, and that is why some are so clever and manipulative.
I do not regard the Bill as a panacea to prevent all sexual offences against children; no measure can do that. No measure can control all paedophiles, but the Bill is a significant step in helping the police to track down the whereabouts of those who may be offending against children. If the police are armed with the information provided under the Bill, it will not only help them to identify suspects once a crime has been committed; it will act as a deterrent to some reoffenders.
I want now to explain the main provisions of this part of the Bill, and to describe the key clauses. The registration requirement will apply in any part of the United Kingdom to all who are convicted of a qualifying offence, either there or in any other part of the UK. It will apply equally to those convicted under courts martial, and to those convicted in the UK of offences committed abroad--under part II of the Bill. In England and Wales, it will also include those who are cautioned for any of those offences.
The qualifying offences are set out in schedule 1. They cover sexual offences involving children, including child pornography offences, and also the most serious sexual offences against adults: all cases of rape and attempted rape, and cases of indecent assault for which a sentence of 30 months' imprisonment or more has been imposed. The Bill is intended to protect children, both boys and girls.
The Government intend to add one further offence to the list set out in schedule 1. We wish to close a loophole in relation to the prohibition on importing indecent and
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It is the paedophile and the serious sex offender whom we are targeting. That is why a number of offences that would otherwise attract registration have age-related exemptions. Some people have sought to argue that all consensual homosexual acts should be excluded, but we must be careful that, in seeking to exclude consensual sexual offences from the requirement to register, we do not inadvertently place under-18-year-olds at risk. In his article in The Times last Friday, Matthew Parris suggested incorrectly that consensual homosexual acts between adults would be caught by the Bill. The age exemptions focus on consensual teenage sex and adult homosexual acts. By restricting the age exemption in that way, we have been mindful of the possibility of manipulative and coercive pressure being exerted by older people on younger impressionable people.
The requirement to register applies indefinitely to those convicted of the most serious offences--that is, those sentenced to imprisonment for 30 months or more. Those sentenced to shorter periods of imprisonment are required to register for a finite period: up to 10 years if the sentence is more than six months, and seven years for a sentence of six months or less. Non-custodial penalties and cautions will attract a registration period of five years.
Those are significant requirements--rightly so, in the Government's belief. Registration periods need to be long enough to reflect the long-term offending pattern of paedophiles. Should the offender be convicted of a further relevant sex offence, the requirement to register will be extended; or if it is after the expiry of a registration period, a further one will be imposed. Periods of registration also apply to persons found not guilty of one of the schedule 1 offences by reason of insanity or by having been found to be unfit to plead, even though they committed the act with which they have been charged.
Mr. David Alton (Liverpool, Mossley Hill):
Does the Minister recall the harrowing reports last year of two young girls, aged nine and 13, whose charred remains were found in a brothel in Bangkok? Will he assure the House that those guilty of offences committed overseas against children will be included on the register? If that is not done, surely there will be more of an impetus to export sexual offences against children, if British nationals believe that they can commit them abroad with impunity.
Will the Minister comment on whether he thinks that one month's imprisonment is long enough for someone who fails to register?
Mr. Maclean:
I shall shortly be commenting on sexual offences committed overseas, in the context of part II; but I believe that it is not possible to require people convicted of any offence abroad to register here. If a paedophile who has committed an offence abroad is convicted in the
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Mr. David Mellor (Putney):
I warmly welcome the Bill, but can my right hon. Friend help me with the thinking behind the point that he was elaborating? He said a very true thing that bears out my experience of more than five years in his office. He said that paedophiles are incorrigible, all the more so because they believe that society is wrong, and that they are not. Clearly, paedophiles are the criminals least likely to mend their ways.
Once the decision has been taken--a major and significant step--to require people convicted of paedophile offences to have their address registered with the police, why is a distinction drawn, based on how long each has been required to serve in prison? That depends on two variables, neither of which is particularly reliable. The first is whether the judge got the initial sentence right. The second is the difference between a fumbled indecent assault and the murder of a child, which depends on how clumsy were the attempts to restrain the child's efforts to protest. That has been my experience. Once people are convicted paedophiles, why should not they remain on the register throughout their lives?
Mr. Maclean:
My right hon. and learned Friend makes an interesting point. I believe that we have got the balance about right. It would be difficult to impose a lifetime registration requirement on any person convicted of a sexual offence of the type specified in schedule 1. There may be a philosophical difference between us. I am open to the suggestion that the registration periods are not right, that they could be extended or perhaps that they should be shortened, but it would be a draconian measure to impose a lifetime requirement on any person convicted of any of the sexual offences in the Bill.
The requirement as drafted is quite draconian. For anyone convicted of a sexual offence who gets a sentence of more than 30 months--not a long sentence--there is a lifetime registration requirement. For anyone who gets more than a six-month sentence, there is a registration requirement of 10 years. Those are fairly hefty, but I shall listen carefully to my right hon. and learned Friend's speech if he catches your eye, Madam Speaker. He might be persuasive, but at present he is not.
Mr. Alun Michael (Cardiff, South and Penarth):
I congratulate the Minister on his approach and on his willingness to listen to other hon. Members' arguments. That is extremely helpful to the atmosphere of debate. The relationship between offences committed abroad, which are listed in schedule 2, and offences committed in this country, which are primarily listed in schedule 1, is extremely important. Is it the case that offences listed in schedule 2--those committed abroad--which the schedule brings within the ambit of United Kingdom law, will therefore require registration in the same way as offences committed in the UK under schedule 1? I note that schedule 2 is more narrowly drawn and I understand the reasons for that, but should there not be a requirement for the registration of offences dealt with under UK law?
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