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Cold Weather Payments
4. Mr. Winnick: To ask the Secretary of State for Social Security what representations he received during the recent cold weather about cold weather payments. [11372]
10. Mr. Barry Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Social Security what assessment he has made of the effectiveness of his cold weather payments; and if he will make a statement. [11378]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Social Security (Mr. Roger Evans): We received 88 letters about the cold weather payments scheme during the recent cold period.
The scheme works well, responding flexibly to target help where it is most needed. So far this winter, over 5 million payments, worth over £43 million, have been made to almost 3 million people.
Mr. Winnick:
Is the Minister aware that when some of my hon. Friends and I went to No. 10 Downing street at the end of December to deliver a letter, although it had been extremely cold for some 10 days, no cold weather payments had been made during that time, causing untold misery and hardship to many pensioners on low incomes? Why are the Government so determined to oppose the measure that my hon. Friend the Member for Preston (Mrs. Wise) wanted to introduce to deal with the chill factor? Does that not show that the Government do not care a damn about those in need?
Mr. Evans:
No. According to paragraph 9.7 of the advice from the Meteorological Office that we took last summer and placed in the Library,
The hon. Gentleman--or, if not the hon. Gentleman, his Front Bench--ought to answer this point. He may wish to spend more money, but the hon. Lady's Bill--vague though it is--would cost several hundred million pounds a year more during a winter as severe as last winter.
Mr. Jones:
Will the Minister look at the undoubted anomalies in this system? For example, in my constituency of Deeside payments are dictated by readings at RAF Valley, 90 miles to the west and warmed by the Irish sea. When the polar wind blew, many pensioners' domestic budgets were blown to smithereens because they only had enough money to heat their homes. Will the Minister please be more generous, and review the system thoroughly?
Mr. Evans:
Every summer we ask the Meteorological Office to review whether the linking of particular parts of constituencies with particular weather stations is
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Obviously, the detailed workings of the scheme are reviewed after every winter. Let me make it clear, however, that responding to Opposition calls to extend the payments to all pensioners, or to all people on income support, would cost between £200 million and £300 million a year more than was spent this year or last year. If the commitment of the right hon. Member for Dunfermline, East (Mr. Brown) to the control totals is to be believed, that is an expenditure commitment that must be met by a Labour cut.
Mr. Batiste:
Does my hon. Friend realise that measurements taken in Leeds city centre are consistently some degrees warmer than those in the rural hinterland, which includes much of my constituency? When he speaks again to the Meteorological Office, will he ask it to review where it takes its measurements in various parts of west Yorkshire, because they are not limited just to Leeds, so that people's entitlement to this important benefit, which was introduced by the Government, relates to their experience at home?
Mr. Evans:
The simple answer to my hon. Friend is yes. If he or any hon. Member wants to make specific points, as numerous hon. Members did last summer, they will of course all be referred to the Meteorological Office and the advice will be carefully considered.
Mrs. Peacock:
I welcome what my hon. Friend has said about the number of payments and the amount of money that has been paid, but will he please take up the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Elmet (Mr. Batiste) about the weather centre in the centre of Leeds? Taking measurements there is useless to people in my constituency who live on the hill. My hon. Friend the Minister knows that I have made representations on the matter. Will he please take it back to the Meteorological Office?
Mr. Evans:
The simple answer is yes. My hon. Friend made the points last summer. The Meteorological Office was not persuaded, but I shall be happy to reconsider the matter if there is any further information or if there are any further arguments.
Mr. Thurnham:
Will the Minister bear in mind the special needs of voluntary funded hostels such as Bolton's Salvation Army hostel, which faces higher heating charges in cold weather, but whose tenants are free to spend their supplements as they wish? Has he any encouraging message for voluntary fund raisers who have to raise the money to keep hostels going?
Mr. Evans:
That is a separate issue from the cold weather payment scheme that we have been discussing.
Mr. McLeish:
Will the Minister explain why, after the Secretary of State for Social Security has spent an extra £15 billion on welfare in the past four years, pensioners and poor families throughout Britain still have to make a choice between eating and heating? Does the Minister accept that cuts in home insulation and the imposition of value added tax on fuel have only worsened the plight of
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Mr. Evans:
The House and the country will take the hon. Gentleman seriously when he tells us exactly what he is prepared to spend and on what. Since 1991, £350 million has been paid out for the home energy efficiency payment scheme and no less than 10 per cent. of the United Kingdom housing stock has had its insulation improved as a result of the scheme. I make it absolutely clear to the hon. Gentleman, and to anyone else who doubts it, that, if he wishes to extend the cold weather payment scheme to everyone on income support and to all pensioners, it will cost £250 million to £300 million a year more in a winter of last year's severity.
5. Mr. Purchase:
To ask the Secretary of State for Social Security if he will make a statement on the increase in spending on benefits since 1979. [11373]
Mr. Lilley:
Since 1979, spending has increased by £40 billion in real terms. More than two thirds of that increased help is for the elderly, the long-term sick and, above all, disabled people.
Mr. Purchase:
Does the Secretary of State realise that the growth in those benefits is almost twice the growth of annual average gross domestic product in Britain under Conservative rule? Does he not recognise that the figures that he has announced show that the Government's economic policy has failed? Most important, does he not understand that his Government have robbed young people of the understanding of the connection between work and welfare, and that the best welfare policy is to put young people back to work?
Mr. Lilley:
The hon. Gentleman was not listening to my answer. Two thirds of the extra help goes to disabled people, long-term sick and elderly people. Is he saying that it is a failure to increase help to disabled people and that Labour would undo it? Is he saying that it is a failure that there are more elderly people? The life expectancy of someone reaching retirement age now is more than two years higher than under Labour.
Mrs. Roe:
Will my right hon. Friend confirm that his reforms, including his proposed reforms of family benefits, are essential to control the increase in social security spending? Is he aware that his planned reforms of family benefits would not be implemented by the Labour party? Has it told him where the money will come from to compensate for the lost savings?
Mr. Lilley:
My hon. Friend makes a very important point. The reforms that we announced in the Budget will ultimately save about £500 million through equalising benefits for lone parents with those available to married couples, which is not only fair but makes it possible for
28 Jan 1997 : Column 142
Ms Harman:
Will the Secretary of State confirm that the social security budget is £15 billion a year more than it was in 1992? Will he confirm that that means that, as Secretary of State, he has increased the social security budget by 20 per cent.? Will he admit that it is no good blaming the elderly? They account for only £1.5 billion of that £15 billion annual increase. Will he admit that it is no good blaming the disabled? They account for only £4 billion of the £15 billion increase. Will he admit that the main reason for the £15 billion increase is that one in five households are without work?
Mr. Lilley:
The hon. Lady's figures are wrong. That is the simple answer to her question. Perhaps she will answer my question and explain--[Interruption.]
Madam Speaker:
Order. As the right hon. Gentleman is aware, this is Question Time, when the Government answer questions.
Mr. Lilley:
The simple answer to the hon. Lady's question is that her figures are wrong. Two thirds of the growth in social security spending in real terms since I took office has been spent on disabled, elderly and long-term sick people. That is fact, and I shall put the figures in the Library. I am sorry that the hon. Lady did not however use the privilege that the House offers to give us the answer that we want: where will she get the money?
"In much of the country, the additional domestic heating requirements generated as a result of the effect of the exposure of houses to wind are too small and too highly variable to be included sensibly in such a scheme."
It is also clear that the Cold Weather Payments (Wind Chill Factor) Bill proposed by the hon. Member for Preston (Mrs. Wise) did not explain how to take the chill factor into account in a sensible, workable or practicable fashion. It would have caused chaos.
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